Discussion:
[ot] New Right De-Emphasizes Hate Bill, by Ted Pike
(too old to reply)
Ø
2007-09-26 06:21:54 UTC
Permalink
http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/newrightdeemphasizes.htm

National Prayer Network
EMERGENCY!


NEW RIGHT DE-EMPHASIZES HATE BILL

By Rev. Ted Pike
25 Sep 07

Confident that President Bush can be counted on to veto the federal "anti-
hate" bill, most Christian/conservative leaders now give greatest emphasis
to defeat of ENDA (The Employment Non-Discrimination Act, H.R. 2015). On
their websites, they attack ENDA as the primary enemy of freedom and
Christian values. Consequently, millions of their Christian followers have
stopped resisting Sen. Kennedy's hate crimes amendment, S.A. 2067, just as
it is about to be voted on in the Senate!

Monday's NPN survey of 30 Republican Senators confirmed last week's
findings: 11 said there were "quite a few" calls against the hate bill, 15
reported "a few," and 4 said not a single call opposed the hate bill.

Dr. James Dobson and Concerned Women for America now describe ENDA as a
type of legislation more threatening than the hate bill. Nothing could be
further from the truth. ENDA is indeed frightening. I have powerfully
warned against it. (See, Hate Bills Top Democrat Agenda) It attacks our
property and hiring or firing rights, as well as freedom of speech,
especially within employment and churches. Yet the federal hate bill is a
vastly greater threat, leading to a universal end of free speech in
broadcasting, publishing, the internet, government, education, religion,
and all aspects of our public and private life.

Last week, most Christian/conservative organizations finally came out with
internet criticism of the hate bill. Yet such warnings were at least five
days after Kennedy boldly tried to attach it to the arms bill -- a period
in which the hate bill might have passed. Their statements, while sound in
criticism of the hate bill, contained no compelling motivation to defeat it
by will of the people rather than veto by the President. (See, Hate Bill
Protest Very Small) Such a lackluster performance by conservative leaders
is symptomatic of a policy decision to de-emphasize the hate bill issue and
mobilize total resources to defeat ENDA. I feel as if I now fight alone in
a ghost town that only months ago bustled with concerned proactive
Americans!

Taking to the Airwaves

Instead of despairing, I was compelled by the Lord to again take to the
airwaves. On five national broadcasts Monday afternoon, including Pat
Kiley's "Follow the Money," which reaches approximately 600,000 on 130
affiliates, I described the imminent peril of hate bill passage and
implored my listeners to call Tuesday morning.

I believe we have reason to hope. Already there is evidence of Divine
providence in the fact that the Senate suddenly stopped considering the
military appropriations bill and instead spent Monday debating the Water
Resources and Development Act. But they will return to the arms bill on
Tuesday morning. This gives us perhaps another precious day to inspire
spirit and fight in Republican Senators.

Over 200 years ago, a faithful Continental Army of 13,000, ragged, unpaid,
semi-starving, followed Gen. George Washington through heat and cold and
many bloody conflicts for eight years. Thousands lost all to purchase our
freedom. What you and I do, compared to what they endured, is very, very
light. In fact, it is beneath comparison.

I am amazed that 99.5% of those who listen to me on the radio or read my e-
alerts do not respond by calling Congress. Evidently, they find a
telephone receiver, weighing less than a pound, too heavy to pick up as a
tool to save freedom.

I hope, for the sake of your freedom and your childrens' -- as well as your
conscience in the dark years ahead -- you are not among them.

CALL YOUR 2 SENATORS!
Toll-Free 1-877-851-6437
Toll 1-202-225-3121


Rev. Ted Pike is director of the National Prayer Network, a
Christian/conservative watchdog organization.

Let the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith teach you how they have
saddled 45 states with hate laws capable of persecuting Christians:
http://www.adl.org/99hatecrime/intro.asp.

Learn how ADL took away free speech in Canada and wants to steal it now in
the U.S. Congress. Watch Rev. Ted Pike's Hate Laws: Making Criminals of
Christians at video.google.com. Purchase this gripping documentary to show
at church. Order online at www.truthtellers.org for $24.90, DVD or VHS, by
calling 503-853-3688, or at the address below.

TALK SHOW HOSTS: Interview Rev. Ted Pike on this topic. Call (503)
631-3808.

National Prayer Network, P.O. Box 828, Clackamas, OR 97015

©2007 National Prayer Network, Inc. All rights reserved.
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-09-26 06:34:01 UTC
Permalink
the subject line really describes what is being discussed/proposed, it
states "Hate Bill"...but the first line by Pike refers to it as "anti-hate
bill"...it appears to me that Pike's "Christians" want the right to publicly
hate and discriminate against whomever they wish!
Post by Ø
http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/newrightdeemphasizes.htm
National Prayer Network
EMERGENCY!
NEW RIGHT DE-EMPHASIZES HATE BILL
By Rev. Ted Pike
25 Sep 07
Confident that President Bush can be counted on to veto the federal "anti-
hate" bill, most Christian/conservative leaders now give greatest emphasis
to defeat of ENDA (The Employment Non-Discrimination Act, H.R. 2015). On
their websites, they attack ENDA as the primary enemy of freedom and
Christian values. Consequently, millions of their Christian followers have
stopped resisting Sen. Kennedy's hate crimes amendment, S.A. 2067, just as
it is about to be voted on in the Senate!
Monday's NPN survey of 30 Republican Senators confirmed last week's
findings: 11 said there were "quite a few" calls against the hate bill, 15
reported "a few," and 4 said not a single call opposed the hate bill.
Dr. James Dobson and Concerned Women for America now describe ENDA as a
type of legislation more threatening than the hate bill. Nothing could be
further from the truth. ENDA is indeed frightening. I have powerfully
warned against it. (See, Hate Bills Top Democrat Agenda) It attacks our
property and hiring or firing rights, as well as freedom of speech,
especially within employment and churches. Yet the federal hate bill is a
vastly greater threat, leading to a universal end of free speech in
broadcasting, publishing, the internet, government, education, religion,
and all aspects of our public and private life.
Last week, most Christian/conservative organizations finally came out with
internet criticism of the hate bill. Yet such warnings were at least five
days after Kennedy boldly tried to attach it to the arms bill -- a period
in which the hate bill might have passed. Their statements, while sound in
criticism of the hate bill, contained no compelling motivation to defeat it
by will of the people rather than veto by the President. (See, Hate Bill
Protest Very Small) Such a lackluster performance by conservative leaders
is symptomatic of a policy decision to de-emphasize the hate bill issue and
mobilize total resources to defeat ENDA. I feel as if I now fight alone in
a ghost town that only months ago bustled with concerned proactive
Americans!
Taking to the Airwaves
Instead of despairing, I was compelled by the Lord to again take to the
airwaves. On five national broadcasts Monday afternoon, including Pat
Kiley's "Follow the Money," which reaches approximately 600,000 on 130
affiliates, I described the imminent peril of hate bill passage and
implored my listeners to call Tuesday morning.
I believe we have reason to hope. Already there is evidence of Divine
providence in the fact that the Senate suddenly stopped considering the
military appropriations bill and instead spent Monday debating the Water
Resources and Development Act. But they will return to the arms bill on
Tuesday morning. This gives us perhaps another precious day to inspire
spirit and fight in Republican Senators.
Over 200 years ago, a faithful Continental Army of 13,000, ragged, unpaid,
semi-starving, followed Gen. George Washington through heat and cold and
many bloody conflicts for eight years. Thousands lost all to purchase our
freedom. What you and I do, compared to what they endured, is very, very
light. In fact, it is beneath comparison.
I am amazed that 99.5% of those who listen to me on the radio or read my e-
alerts do not respond by calling Congress. Evidently, they find a
telephone receiver, weighing less than a pound, too heavy to pick up as a
tool to save freedom.
I hope, for the sake of your freedom and your childrens' -- as well as your
conscience in the dark years ahead -- you are not among them.
CALL YOUR 2 SENATORS!
Toll-Free 1-877-851-6437
Toll 1-202-225-3121
Rev. Ted Pike is director of the National Prayer Network, a
Christian/conservative watchdog organization.
Let the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith teach you how they have
http://www.adl.org/99hatecrime/intro.asp.
Learn how ADL took away free speech in Canada and wants to steal it now in
the U.S. Congress. Watch Rev. Ted Pike's Hate Laws: Making Criminals of
Christians at video.google.com. Purchase this gripping documentary to show
at church. Order online at www.truthtellers.org for $24.90, DVD or VHS, by
calling 503-853-3688, or at the address below.
TALK SHOW HOSTS: Interview Rev. Ted Pike on this topic. Call (503)
631-3808.
National Prayer Network, P.O. Box 828, Clackamas, OR 97015
©2007 National Prayer Network, Inc. All rights reserved.
Ø
2007-09-27 03:24:11 UTC
Permalink
----
http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/funddocs/billeng.htm
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the government for a redress of grievances.
-------



Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
the subject line really describes what is being discussed/proposed, it
states "Hate Bill"...but the first line by Pike refers to it as
"anti-hate bill"...it appears to me that Pike's "Christians" want the
right to publicly hate and discriminate against whomever they wish!
Post by Ø
http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/newrightdeemphasizes.htm
National Prayer Network
EMERGENCY!
NEW RIGHT DE-EMPHASIZES HATE BILL
By Rev. Ted Pike
25 Sep 07
Confident that President Bush can be counted on to veto the federal
"anti- hate" bill, most Christian/conservative leaders now give
greatest emphasis to defeat of ENDA (The Employment
Non-Discrimination Act, H.R. 2015). On their websites, they attack
ENDA as the primary enemy of freedom and Christian values.
Consequently, millions of their Christian followers have
stopped resisting Sen. Kennedy's hate crimes amendment, S.A. 2067,
just as it is about to be voted on in the Senate!
<snip />
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-09-27 03:42:30 UTC
Permalink
where in the anti-hate bill does it restrict free speech? the little I heard
about it only prohibits actions not speech.
Post by Ø
----
http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/funddocs/billeng.htm
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the government for a redress of grievances.
-------
Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
the subject line really describes what is being discussed/proposed, it
states "Hate Bill"...but the first line by Pike refers to it as
"anti-hate bill"...it appears to me that Pike's "Christians" want the
right to publicly hate and discriminate against whomever they wish!
Post by Ø
http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/newrightdeemphasizes.htm
National Prayer Network
EMERGENCY!
NEW RIGHT DE-EMPHASIZES HATE BILL
By Rev. Ted Pike
25 Sep 07
Confident that President Bush can be counted on to veto the federal
"anti- hate" bill, most Christian/conservative leaders now give
greatest emphasis to defeat of ENDA (The Employment
Non-Discrimination Act, H.R. 2015). On their websites, they attack
ENDA as the primary enemy of freedom and Christian values.
Consequently, millions of their Christian followers have
stopped resisting Sen. Kennedy's hate crimes amendment, S.A. 2067,
just as it is about to be voted on in the Senate!
<snip />
Ø
2007-09-28 03:24:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
where in the anti-hate bill does it restrict free speech? the little I
heard about it only prohibits actions not speech.
Do you *seriously* think the ADL and other JEWISH groups will stop there?
They want TOTAL control of what is seen, heard, spoken and thought. I judge
them by their past and present actions.


They didn't see the burning down of 9 Christian churches as hate.
http://judicial-inc.biz/church_fires_in_alabama.htm

Paint a swastika on a synagogue and the wails from hell are heard around
the world.

Don't be the frog that got boiled.

Ø
--------------------------------
--------------------------------
PROTOCOL No. 1
14. In any State in which there is a bad organization of authority, an
impersonality of laws and of the rulers who have lost their personality
amid the flood of rights ever multiplying out of liberalism, I find a new
right -- to attack by the right of the strong, and to scatter to the winds
all existing forces of order and regulation, to reconstruct all
institutions and to become the sovereign lord of those who have left to us
the rights of their power by laying them down voluntarily in their
liberalism.
THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-09-28 03:56:30 UTC
Permalink
as usual...just paranoid BS!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
where in the anti-hate bill does it restrict free speech? the little I
heard about it only prohibits actions not speech.
Do you *seriously* think the ADL and other JEWISH groups will stop there?
They want TOTAL control of what is seen, heard, spoken and thought. I judge
them by their past and present actions.
They didn't see the burning down of 9 Christian churches as hate.
http://judicial-inc.biz/church_fires_in_alabama.htm
Paint a swastika on a synagogue and the wails from hell are heard around
the world.
Don't be the frog that got boiled.
Ø
--------------------------------
--------------------------------
PROTOCOL No. 1
14. In any State in which there is a bad organization of authority, an
impersonality of laws and of the rulers who have lost their personality
amid the flood of rights ever multiplying out of liberalism, I find a new
right -- to attack by the right of the strong, and to scatter to the winds
all existing forces of order and regulation, to reconstruct all
institutions and to become the sovereign lord of those who have left to us
the rights of their power by laying them down voluntarily in their
liberalism.
THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION
Ø
2007-09-28 05:05:29 UTC
Permalink
You're entitled to your opinion.
(As long as it falls within the guidelines set by Judeo-Masonry!)
And yours certainly does, so you'll get the pat on the back.
--
Is it or is it not a fact that 9 Christian churches were burned down and it
was not ruled a hate crime?

Is it or is it not a fact that "hate crime" laws have been on the books for
years? Is it or is it not a fact that the ADL thinks this is not enough?
The ADL will NEVER be happy until it can criminalize certain speech.

----
A crime is a crime and should be dealt with in a logical and common-sense
manner. Once you introduce such nebulous concepts as "hate" into your laws
you throw reason right out the window, and you wind up giving the
totalitarian element exactly what it wants.

Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
as usual...just paranoid BS!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
where in the anti-hate bill does it restrict free speech? the little
I heard about it only prohibits actions not speech.
Do you *seriously* think the ADL and other JEWISH groups will stop
there? They want TOTAL control of what is seen, heard, spoken and
thought. I judge
them by their past and present actions.
They didn't see the burning down of 9 Christian churches as hate.
http://judicial-inc.biz/church_fires_in_alabama.htm
Paint a swastika on a synagogue and the wails from hell are heard
around the world.
Don't be the frog that got boiled.
Ø
--------------------------------
--------------------------------
PROTOCOL No. 1
14. In any State in which there is a bad organization of authority,
an impersonality of laws and of the rulers who have lost their
personality amid the flood of rights ever multiplying out of
liberalism, I find a new right -- to attack by the right of the
strong, and to scatter to the winds all existing forces of order and
regulation, to reconstruct all institutions and to become the
sovereign lord of those who have left to us the rights of their power
by laying them down voluntarily in their liberalism.
THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-09-28 11:33:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
You're entitled to your opinion.
(As long as it falls within the guidelines set by Judeo-Masonry!)
And yours certainly does, so you'll get the pat on the back.
so many of the rights we have in the US were first declared as national
rights by the so-called founding fathers...of which many of the more
well-known were Masons.
Post by Ø
--
Is it or is it not a fact that 9 Christian churches were burned down and it
was not ruled a hate crime?
if you are referring to "white churches", most likely true but you fail to
mention mosques and synagoges and black churches which have been burned down
by so-called Christians.
Post by Ø
Is it or is it not a fact that "hate crime" laws have been on the books for
years? Is it or is it not a fact that the ADL thinks this is not enough?
The ADL will NEVER be happy until it can criminalize certain speech.
A crime is a crime and should be dealt with in a logical and common-sense
manner.
of course! but I would replace "logical and common sense" with "legal and
equally applied".
Post by Ø
Once you introduce such nebulous concepts as "hate" into your laws
you throw reason right out the window, and you wind up giving the
totalitarian element exactly what it wants.
you answered your own question above: "Is it or is it not a fact that 9
Christian churches were burned down and it was not ruled a hate crime?"

such local laws are frequently not sufficiently enforced...federal laws
would/should make enforcement of such laws easier or more consistent to
uphold
Ø
2007-10-01 08:10:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
You're entitled to your opinion.
(As long as it falls within the guidelines set by Judeo-Masonry!)
And yours certainly does, so you'll get the pat on the back.
so many of the rights we have in the US were first declared as
national rights by the so-called founding fathers...of which many of
the more well-known were Masons.
The rights were put in writing AFTER many complained (Patrick Henry, etc.)
http://www.911omissionreport.com/articles_of_confederation.wmv
http://www.sweetliberty.org/perspective/jewishpersecution18.htm
http://truthofthestory.blogspot.com/2007/08/time-for-honest-american-history-lesson.html
http://www.rense.com/general77/strink.htm

It's complicated and I'm still working my way through all this.

I will say this: Do you remember when a "conservative" was usually opposed
to wars and federal spending? Now, "conservatism" is a Judeo-Neocon
conservatism that is more Trotskyite than anything else. The spending
limit keeps going up and they project more and more wars. The US is on a
Trotskyite (Talmudic/Cabalistic) agenda under a different guise.
http://www.currentconcerns.ch/archive/20030102.php

Do you remember when Christianity was about Jesus? More and more,
"Christianity" is Judeo-Christianity where supporting Israel and blessing
the Jews is the goal.

In short, groups are infiltrated and corrupted and destroyed from within.
This is done with tons of $$$$$$$$$$$$.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
--
Is it or is it not a fact that 9 Christian churches were burned down and it
was not ruled a hate crime?
if you are referring to "white churches", most likely true but you
fail to mention mosques and synagoges and black churches which have
been burned down by so-called Christians.
I'm referring to "black" and "white" Baptist churches that were burned
down by three marauding thugs.
http://judicial-inc.biz/church_fires_in_alabama.htm
They targeted Baptist churches. The ADL, SPLC, were silent on the issue.
The High Priests of Tolerance decide what is hate or not hate. These
"laws" will be used as a political hammer. I don't think it's wise to have
these totalitarian Zionist agents running the thought crime industry.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Is it or is it not a fact that "hate crime" laws have been on the books for
years? Is it or is it not a fact that the ADL thinks this is not
enough? The ADL will NEVER be happy until it can criminalize certain
speech.
A crime is a crime and should be dealt with in a logical and
common-sense manner.
of course! but I would replace "logical and common sense" with "legal
and equally applied".
It's legal in Germany to prosecute those who say less than 6m Jews died in
the holocaust. It's illegal to mount a defense based on your evidence for
making such a claim. The fact that you made the claim makes you a
criminal. There's no defense. It's "legal", yet it's unjust. That shows
the utter corruption of their "legal" system.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Once you introduce such nebulous concepts as "hate" into your laws
you throw reason right out the window, and you wind up giving the
totalitarian element exactly what it wants.
you answered your own question above: "Is it or is it not a fact that
9 Christian churches were burned down and it was not ruled a hate
crime?"
It was not ruled a hate crime because it was not PC to do so.
We don't need "hate" crimes. Treat crimes as crimes.
Leave "thought" or "emotion" out of it.
Thought can't and shouldn't be legislated.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
such local laws are frequently not sufficiently enforced...federal
laws would/should make enforcement of such laws easier or more
consistent to uphold
We do not need the Feds coming down on people because of what they were
supposedly thinking when they committed a crime. We're getting into
very dangerous territory there.

--
"I am devoting my lecture in this seminar to a discussion of the
possibility that we are now entering a Jewish Century. A time when the
spirit of the community, the non-ideological blend of the emotional and
rational and the resistance to categories and forms will emerge through
the forces of anti-nationalism to provide us with a new kind of society. I
call this process the Judaization of Christianity because Christianity
will be the vehicle through which this society becomes Jewish."
- Rabbi Martin Siegel,' New York Magazine', p.32, Jan. 18, 1972
--

Well, I don't *WANT* to become "Jewish", Rabbi Siegel!
You can KISS my GOY ASS!

Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-01 17:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
so many of the rights we have in the US were first declared as
national rights by the so-called founding fathers...of which many of
the more well-known were Masons.
The rights were put in writing AFTER many complained (Patrick Henry, etc.)
http://www.911omissionreport.com/articles_of_confederation.wmv
http://www.sweetliberty.org/perspective/jewishpersecution18.htm
http://truthofthestory.blogspot.com/2007/08/time-for-honest-american-history-lesson.html
http://www.rense.com/general77/strink.htm
It's complicated and I'm still working my way through all this.
and speculative
Post by Ø
I will say this: Do you remember when a "conservative" was usually opposed
to wars and federal spending? Now, "conservatism" is a Judeo-Neocon
conservatism that is more Trotskyite than anything else. The spending
limit keeps going up and they project more and more wars. The US is on a
Trotskyite (Talmudic/Cabalistic) agenda under a different guise.
http://www.currentconcerns.ch/archive/20030102.php
what does the Kabalah have to do with any of this? Kabalahists and Islamic
Sufis (mystics) have long been persecuted by their respective
religions....similarly for Christian mystics.
Post by Ø
Do you remember when Christianity was about Jesus? More and more,
"Christianity" is Judeo-Christianity where supporting Israel and blessing
the Jews is the goal.
In short, groups are infiltrated and corrupted and destroyed from within.
This is done with tons of $$$$$$$$$$$$.
for me, the only true Christianity is defined by the "red-letter" text in
Bibles which have red-letter text...supposedly what Jesus actually said and
taught...and virtually none of Jesus' teachings have prevailed in any church
since the first couple of centuries since Jesus' death.
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
--
Is it or is it not a fact that 9 Christian churches were burned down and it
was not ruled a hate crime?
if you are referring to "white churches", most likely true but you
fail to mention mosques and synagoges and black churches which have
been burned down by so-called Christians.
It's legal in Germany to prosecute those who say less than 6m Jews died in
the holocaust. It's illegal to mount a defense based on your evidence for
making such a claim. The fact that you made the claim makes you a
criminal. There's no defense. It's "legal", yet it's unjust. That shows
the utter corruption of their "legal" system.
yes, they went overboard, but considering their history, it is somewhat
understandable...I would hope that such extreme laws would be corrected in
the near future
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
you answered your own question above: "Is it or is it not a fact that
9 Christian churches were burned down and it was not ruled a hate
crime?"
It was not ruled a hate crime because it was not PC to do so.
We don't need "hate" crimes. Treat crimes as crimes.
Leave "thought" or "emotion" out of it.
Thought can't and shouldn't be legislated.
to the best of my knowledge, thought is not being challenged...only actions
based upon those thoughts...I would think that those who advocate or
instigate such crimes should be prosecuted as well as those who commit the
crimes directly
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
such local laws are frequently not sufficiently enforced...federal
laws would/should make enforcement of such laws easier or more
consistent to uphold
We do not need the Feds coming down on people because of what they were
supposedly thinking when they committed a crime. We're getting into
very dangerous territory there.
again...to the best of my knowledge, thought is not being challenged...only
actions based upon those thoughts..."supposedly" should not apply, only
actual instigations and criminal activities
Ø
2007-10-03 07:15:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
so many of the rights we have in the US were first declared as
national rights by the so-called founding fathers...of which many of
the more well-known were Masons.
The rights were put in writing AFTER many complained (Patrick Henry,
etc.) http://www.911omissionreport.com/articles_of_confederation.wmv
http://www.sweetliberty.org/perspective/jewishpersecution18.htm
http://truthofthestory.blogspot.com/2007/08/time-for-honest-american-h
istory-lesson.html http://www.rense.com/general77/strink.htm
It's complicated and I'm still working my way through all this.
and speculative
I hope you're not saying that it's wrong just because you call it
"speculative". Is there anything there that you would call "wild"
speculation?
These are not my only sources by the way.

There's nothing wrong with speculation/conjecture, as long as you know
that's what you're doing and you test your conjectures.

Speculation/conjecture is used in science, mathematics.

Isaac Newton sees an apple fall and he thinks:

[hmmmmm, the apple falls/accelerates toward the center of the earth. I
wonder... hmmm.... could the moon be doing the same thing?]

Detectives have to speculate. They usually don't walk into a crime scene
knowing who commited the murder.

Of course, it should be done responsibly. If the detective walks in,
observes a couple of cockroaches dash off, and says:

[hmmmmm, I wonder if the cockroaches bashed the victim's head in with that
baseball bat...]
Sanity check time!!
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
I will say this: Do you remember when a "conservative" was usually
opposed to wars and federal spending? Now, "conservatism" is a
Judeo-Neocon conservatism that is more Trotskyite than anything else.
The spending limit keeps going up and they project more and more
wars. The US is on a Trotskyite (Talmudic/Cabalistic) agenda under a
different guise. http://www.currentconcerns.ch/archive/20030102.php
what does the Kabalah have to do with any of this? Kabalahists and
Islamic Sufis (mystics) have long been persecuted by their respective
religions....similarly for Christian mystics.
OK. I retract the "Cabalistic" part of my statement for now.
Secret societies are heavy into the Cabala, though.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Do you remember when Christianity was about Jesus? More and more,
"Christianity" is Judeo-Christianity where supporting Israel and
blessing the Jews is the goal.
In short, groups are infiltrated and corrupted and destroyed from
within. This is done with tons of $$$$$$$$$$$$.
for me, the only true Christianity is defined by the "red-letter" text
in Bibles which have red-letter text...supposedly what Jesus actually
said and taught...and virtually none of Jesus' teachings have
prevailed in any church since the first couple of centuries since
Jesus' death.
Who decided what Jesus actually said? I'll check more into this.
Sounds like a "Scofield" type job to me.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
--
Is it or is it not a fact that 9 Christian churches were burned down and it
was not ruled a hate crime?
if you are referring to "white churches", most likely true but you
fail to mention mosques and synagoges and black churches which have
been burned down by so-called Christians.
It's legal in Germany to prosecute those who say less than 6m Jews
died in the holocaust. It's illegal to mount a defense based on your
evidence for making such a claim. The fact that you made the claim
makes you a criminal. There's no defense. It's "legal", yet it's
unjust. That shows the utter corruption of their "legal" system.
yes, they went overboard, but considering their history, it is
somewhat understandable...I would hope that such extreme laws would be
corrected in the near future
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
you answered your own question above: "Is it or is it not a fact
that 9 Christian churches were burned down and it was not ruled a
hate crime?"
It was not ruled a hate crime because it was not PC to do so.
We don't need "hate" crimes. Treat crimes as crimes.
Leave "thought" or "emotion" out of it.
Thought can't and shouldn't be legislated.
to the best of my knowledge, thought is not being challenged...only
actions based upon those thoughts...I would think that those who
advocate or instigate such crimes should be prosecuted as well as
those who commit the crimes directly
I look at it differently.

Scenario #1. If you bash someone's head in with a baseball bat and call
him a dirty X you could be prosecuted for a hate crime, especially if they
search your home and find a book about X's that is on an unofficial
!!FORBIDDEN-DONOTREAD!! list.

Scenario #2. If you bash someone's head in with a baseball bat to take his
wallet, you won't be prosecuted for a hate crime.

The action was the same, the motivation is different. Motivation is based
on your thoughts/personality.

Results:

Scenario #1: Treated as a hate crime, the Feds come in and take over,
start throwing their weight around. Harsher penalty highly probable.

Scenario #2: Treated as a crime, Feds out of the picture, probable lighter
sentence.

I would say that the Feds are indeed moving into the realm of thought.
This is VERY serious.


As far as those who advocate or instigate such crimes, I would agree with
you. That's why I would like to see MS prosecuted for mass murder. ;-)


<snip />

Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-03 10:44:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
and speculative
I hope you're not saying that it's wrong just because you call it
"speculative". Is there anything there that you would call "wild"
speculation?
These are not my only sources by the way.
There's nothing wrong with speculation/conjecture, as long as you know
that's what you're doing and you test your conjectures.
Speculation/conjecture is used in science, mathematics.
Sanity check time!!
speculation is obviously import but speculation is not fact...many
speculations do not yield "truth".
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
what does the Kabalah have to do with any of this? Kabalahists and
Islamic Sufis (mystics) have long been persecuted by their respective
religions....similarly for Christian mystics.
OK. I retract the "Cabalistic" part of my statement for now.
Secret societies are heavy into the Cabala, though.
not true for ALL secret societies...true for many but not ALL
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
for me, the only true Christianity is defined by the "red-letter" text
in Bibles which have red-letter text...supposedly what Jesus actually
said and taught...and virtually none of Jesus' teachings have
prevailed in any church since the first couple of centuries since
Jesus' death.
Who decided what Jesus actually said? I'll check more into this.
Sounds like a "Scofield" type job to me.
that is why I said "supposedly"...I tend towards the so-called red-letter
text rather than the various latter interpretations of what he might have
said
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
to the best of my knowledge, thought is not being challenged...only
actions based upon those thoughts...I would think that those who
advocate or instigate such crimes should be prosecuted as well as
those who commit the crimes directly
I look at it differently.
Scenario #1. If you bash someone's head in with a baseball bat and call
him a dirty X you could be prosecuted for a hate crime, especially if they
search your home and find a book about X's that is on an unofficial
!!FORBIDDEN-DONOTREAD!! list.
Scenario #2. If you bash someone's head in with a baseball bat to take his
wallet, you won't be prosecuted for a hate crime.
The action was the same, the motivation is different. Motivation is based
on your thoughts/personality.
Scenario #1: Treated as a hate crime, the Feds come in and take over,
start throwing their weight around. Harsher penalty highly probable.
Scenario #2: Treated as a crime, Feds out of the picture, probable lighter
sentence.
I would say that the Feds are indeed moving into the realm of thought.
This is VERY serious.
I agree with your analysis of the 2 scenarios but I come to a different
conclusion:

scenario #1 does tend to suggest a hate crime especially if the book you
mention says one should kill all "dirty "Xs" should be killed...I would
suggest that the author of the book should also be tried for a hate crime
because the author advocated/instigated such crimes...I am not aware of such
a "!!FORBIDDEN-DONOTREAD!! list".

scenario #2 seems to suggest just a crime without regard to hate...just a
brutal theft resulting in murder...although I don't agree necessarily with a
lighter sentence.
Ø
2007-10-03 18:14:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
and speculative
I hope you're not saying that it's wrong just because you call it
"speculative". Is there anything there that you would call "wild"
speculation?
These are not my only sources by the way.
There's nothing wrong with speculation/conjecture, as long as you
know that's what you're doing and you test your conjectures.
Speculation/conjecture is used in science, mathematics.
Sanity check time!!
speculation is obviously import but speculation is not fact...many
speculations do not yield "truth".
What's your point? That's what my examples demonstrate.
Speculation/conjecture when done intelligently can lead to truth.
If done recklessly it'll probably throw you wide off the mark.

Do you have any specific examples of reckless speculative material in the
links I provided you?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
what does the Kabalah have to do with any of this? Kabalahists and
Islamic Sufis (mystics) have long been persecuted by their
respective religions....similarly for Christian mystics.
OK. I retract the "Cabalistic" part of my statement for now.
Secret societies are heavy into the Cabala, though.
not true for ALL secret societies...true for many but not ALL
I didn't say ALL, because I don't KNOW all secret societies.
Use some common sense, Dennis.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
for me, the only true Christianity is defined by the "red-letter"
text in Bibles which have red-letter text...supposedly what Jesus
actually said and taught...and virtually none of Jesus' teachings
have prevailed in any church since the first couple of centuries
since Jesus' death.
Who decided what Jesus actually said? I'll check more into this.
Sounds like a "Scofield" type job to me.
that is why I said "supposedly"...I tend towards the so-called
red-letter text rather than the various latter interpretations of what
he might have said
I saw that. You said "supposedly". You get a gold star.
I was asking that question for information from you, that's all.
Do you know who decided what the red-text is?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
to the best of my knowledge, thought is not being challenged...only
actions based upon those thoughts...I would think that those who
advocate or instigate such crimes should be prosecuted as well as
those who commit the crimes directly
I look at it differently.
Scenario #1. If you bash someone's head in with a baseball bat and
call him a dirty X you could be prosecuted for a hate crime,
especially if they search your home and find a book about X's that is
on an unofficial !!FORBIDDEN-DONOTREAD!! list.
Scenario #2. If you bash someone's head in with a baseball bat to
take his wallet, you won't be prosecuted for a hate crime.
The action was the same, the motivation is different. Motivation is
based on your thoughts/personality.
Scenario #1: Treated as a hate crime, the Feds come in and take over,
start throwing their weight around. Harsher penalty highly probable.
Scenario #2: Treated as a crime, Feds out of the picture, probable
lighter sentence.
I would say that the Feds are indeed moving into the realm of
thought. This is VERY serious.
I agree with your analysis of the 2 scenarios but I come to a
scenario #1 does tend to suggest a hate crime especially if the book
you mention says one should kill all "dirty "Xs" should be killed...I
would suggest that the author of the book should also be tried for a
hate crime because the author advocated/instigated such crimes...
If the author puts out a book saying kill all dirty X's, and it motivates
someone to kill an X, then maybe the author *should* also be tried.
Not for a so-called "hate" crime, but for possibly inciting someone to
violence and murder.

Murder is bad enough.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
I am
not aware of such a "!!FORBIDDEN-DONOTREAD!! list".
Protocols of Zion for example.
Douglas Reed's "Controversy of Zion",
Elizabeth Dilling's "The Jewish Religion: Its Influence Today",
http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/index.html
Waters Flowing Eastward http://crashrecovery.org/Waters/index.htm

Now, I know what your reply is going to be:
There is no such list.

I say there is such a list. It's unofficial, but it's there.
Try asking for these books at your library.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
scenario #2 seems to suggest just a crime without regard to
hate...just a brutal theft resulting in murder...although I don't
agree necessarily with a lighter sentence.
Maybe BOTH should get the heavier sentence. I DON'T CARE.
You don't bash people's heads in, that's all.
(Please don't play games and bring up self-defense.)
All I'm saying is "hate" should not be part of the formula.
We don't want Homeland Security coming down on American citizens.
This is EXACTLY what will happen if we go down this Orwellian path.


Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-03 22:33:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
and speculative
I hope you're not saying that it's wrong just because you call it
"speculative". Is there anything there that you would call "wild"
speculation?
These are not my only sources by the way.
There's nothing wrong with speculation/conjecture, as long as you
know that's what you're doing and you test your conjectures.
Speculation/conjecture is used in science, mathematics.
Sanity check time!!
speculation is obviously import but speculation is not fact...many
speculations do not yield "truth".
What's your point? That's what my examples demonstrate.
Speculation/conjecture when done intelligently can lead to truth.
If done recklessly it'll probably throw you wide off the mark.
Do you have any specific examples of reckless speculative material in the
links I provided you?
look up the history of "philogiston" an early attempt to explain
combustion...a real scientific theory but simply later proved to be false.
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
what does the Kabalah have to do with any of this? Kabalahists and
Islamic Sufis (mystics) have long been persecuted by their
respective religions....similarly for Christian mystics.
OK. I retract the "Cabalistic" part of my statement for now.
Secret societies are heavy into the Cabala, though.
not true for ALL secret societies...true for many but not ALL
I didn't say ALL, because I don't KNOW all secret societies.
Use some common sense, Dennis.
you said "Secret societies are heavy into the Cabala", if you had said
"oranges are citrus fruits" that implies ALL oranges are citrus fruits,
similarily for your statement regarding secret societies...you could have
said "some secret societies" but you did not!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
that is why I said "supposedly"...I tend towards the so-called
red-letter text rather than the various latter interpretations of what
he might have said
I saw that. You said "supposedly". You get a gold star.
I was asking that question for information from you, that's all.
Do you know who decided what the red-text is?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
I am
not aware of such a "!!FORBIDDEN-DONOTREAD!! list".
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-4179181-4278509?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Protocols+of+Zion&Go.x=10&Go.y=11
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-4179181-4278509?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Controversy+of+Zion&Go.x=14&Go.y=9
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-4179181-4278509?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=The+Jewish+Religion%3A+Its+Influence+Today&Go.x=10&Go.y=12
Post by Ø
http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/index.html
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-4179181-4278509?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Waters+Flowing+Eastward&Go.x=10&Go.y=11
Post by Ø
There is no such list.
I say there is such a list. It's unofficial, but it's there.
Try asking for these books at your library.
try asking for a book about the Sufis at your local Christian church

local libraries often make mistakes in "banning books" but they are also
restricted by finances and often sell of classic works because they are not
often requested and they need the shelf space...I suggest that most
universities would have such books available and they can often be found on
eBay and from other online book sellers including Amazon often at reasonable
prices...see the Amazon links following the ":" on your list above
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
scenario #2 seems to suggest just a crime without regard to
hate...just a brutal theft resulting in murder...although I don't
agree necessarily with a lighter sentence.
Maybe BOTH should get the heavier sentence. I DON'T CARE.
You don't bash people's heads in, that's all.
(Please don't play games and bring up self-defense.)
why not? would you not kill if it was the only way to save the life of your
wife, child, mother, father. etc
Post by Ø
All I'm saying is "hate" should not be part of the formula.
We don't want Homeland Security coming down on American citizens.
This is EXACTLY what will happen if we go down this Orwellian path.
I am not aware that Homeland Security would be the enforcer of such
anti-hate laws
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-03 22:48:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
that is why I said "supposedly"...I tend towards the so-called
red-letter text rather than the various latter interpretations of what
he might have said
I saw that. You said "supposedly". You get a gold star.
I was asking that question for information from you, that's all.
Do you know who decided what the red-text is?
no but a google search on bible red-letter text gives a lot of hits...maybe
some history can be found
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-03 22:50:43 UTC
Permalink
39 eBay hits for Protocols of Zion!
Ø
2007-10-04 19:30:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
39 eBay hits for Protocols of Zion!
I wasn't talking ebay. I was talking public library.
The SFPL *does* have a copy. You can't borrow it, though.
It's in the "reference" section, apparently.
http://sflib1.sfpl.org/search/?searchtype=X&searcharg=marsden%2C+victor&SORT=D&x=0&y=0&stype=0
Maybe some totalitarian types keep "borrowing" and "losing" it.
That's just speculation on my part, of course. :-)

You can get your very own copy from http://www.omnicbc.com/
They'll send you a catalog with your order.

Myself, I copied it off the web (some Australian site) and printed that
out.

A "modern" translation is at
http://iamthewitness.com/Protocols.in.Modern.English.htm

I'll also include their link to a Spanish version:
http://www.aztlan.net/protocolos.htm



Ø
Ø
2007-10-04 19:30:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
that is why I said "supposedly"...I tend towards the so-called
red-letter text rather than the various latter interpretations of
what he might have said
I saw that. You said "supposedly". You get a gold star.
I was asking that question for information from you, that's all.
Do you know who decided what the red-text is?
no but a google search on bible red-letter text gives a lot of
hits...maybe some history can be found
So you don't know?
When I brought up the "Scofield" bible I was nice enough to include links.

Do you know or don't you know who decided what would be the "red-letter"
text? That's what I would like to know.

Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-04 21:19:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
that is why I said "supposedly"...I tend towards the so-called
red-letter text rather than the various latter interpretations of
what he might have said
I saw that. You said "supposedly". You get a gold star.
I was asking that question for information from you, that's all.
Do you know who decided what the red-text is?
no but a google search on bible red-letter text gives a lot of
hits...maybe some history can be found
So you don't know?
When I brought up the "Scofield" bible I was nice enough to include links.
Do you know or don't you know who decided what would be the "red-letter"
text? That's what I would like to know.
I do not know but supposedly the red-letter text is what Jesus said...Jesus,
to the best of our knowledge, wrote nothing down...of course, this leads
directly to the question of who really defined Christianity and why should
anyone believe them?
Ø
2007-10-05 19:27:44 UTC
Permalink
<snip />
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Do you know or don't you know who decided what would be the
"red-letter" text? That's what I would like to know.
I do not know but supposedly the red-letter text is what Jesus
said...Jesus, to the best of our knowledge, wrote nothing down...of
course, this leads directly to the question of who really defined
Christianity and why should anyone believe them?
True, but the same is true for Judaism!
Red-letter text notwithstanding.
What do you think?

Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-05 20:22:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
<snip />
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Do you know or don't you know who decided what would be the
"red-letter" text? That's what I would like to know.
I do not know but supposedly the red-letter text is what Jesus
said...Jesus, to the best of our knowledge, wrote nothing down...of
course, this leads directly to the question of who really defined
Christianity and why should anyone believe them?
True, but the same is true for Judaism!
Red-letter text notwithstanding.
What do you think?
as I said before, for me, Christianity is defined only by red-letter
text...everything thing else are add-ons by someone else...I never said I
believed it.
Ø
2007-10-04 19:30:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
and speculative
I hope you're not saying that it's wrong just because you call it
"speculative". Is there anything there that you would call "wild"
speculation?
These are not my only sources by the way.
There's nothing wrong with speculation/conjecture, as long as you
know that's what you're doing and you test your conjectures.
Speculation/conjecture is used in science, mathematics.
Sanity check time!!
speculation is obviously import but speculation is not fact...many
speculations do not yield "truth".
What's your point? That's what my examples demonstrate.
Speculation/conjecture when done intelligently can lead to truth.
If done recklessly it'll probably throw you wide off the mark.
Do you have any specific examples of reckless speculative material in
the links I provided you?
look up the history of "philogiston" an early attempt to explain
combustion...a real scientific theory but simply later proved to be false.
I asked you to provide an example FROM THE LINKS I PROVIDED ABOVE (and you conveniently deleted).
You said they were speculative. I ask for an example. That's all.
This isn't rocket science.
The links were about Masons in early American political history and what role they may have played in the evolution of that history.
The phlogiston stuff is nice, but irrelevant.
Care to try again?

##############################
Subject: Re: [ot] New Right De-Emphasizes Hate Bill, by Ted Pike
From: "Ø" <Ø@set.null>
Message-ID: <***@140.99.99.130>
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 08:10:32 GMT
<snip>
The rights were put in writing AFTER many complained (Patrick Henry, etc.)
http://www.911omissionreport.com/articles_of_confederation.wmv
http://www.sweetliberty.org/perspective/jewishpersecution18.htm
http://truthofthestory.blogspot.com/2007/08/time-for-honest-american-history-lesson.html
http://www.rense.com/general77/strink.htm
<snip />
############################

You, with a wave of your hand dismissed the info here as "speculative".
Well, waving your hands and uttering buzzwords just won't do.

In the links I provided, and you deleted from this post, what, specifically, do you find "speculative" or objectionable?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
what does the Kabalah have to do with any of this? Kabalahists and
Islamic Sufis (mystics) have long been persecuted by their
respective religions....similarly for Christian mystics.
OK. I retract the "Cabalistic" part of my statement for now.
Secret societies are heavy into the Cabala, though.
not true for ALL secret societies...true for many but not ALL
I didn't say ALL, because I don't KNOW all secret societies.
Use some common sense, Dennis.
you said "Secret societies are heavy into the Cabala", if you had said
"oranges are citrus fruits" that implies ALL oranges are citrus
fruits, similarily for your statement regarding secret societies...you
could have said "some secret societies" but you did not!
Dennis, your insane hair-splitting is beginning to piss me off.

If someone says, "Americans like baseball", are they making a statement
about ALL Americans? *Anyone* on Earth, using common-sense would know that
this is a generalization, and there is a very high likelihood of there
being some Americans who don't like baseball. No one in their right mind
would stand up and say: "but you said *ALL* Americans".

No one, except maybe dmreed, that is. Perhaps dmreed is not in his right
mind.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
that is why I said "supposedly"...I tend towards the so-called
red-letter text rather than the various latter interpretations of
what he might have said
I saw that. You said "supposedly". You get a gold star.
I was asking that question for information from you, that's all.
Do you know who decided what the red-text is?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
I am
not aware of such a "!!FORBIDDEN-DONOTREAD!! list".
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-4179181-4278509?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Protocols+of+Zion&Go.x=10&Go.y=11
This one is NOT sold by Amazon, but is sold by a number of affiliates in
the price range of $19.99 - 100.00 per copy.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-4179181-4278509?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Controversy+of+Zion&Go.x=14&Go.y=9
This one is NOT sold by Amazon, but is sold by two affiliates in the price
range of $58.25 - $100.00. (I could have sworn Amazon was selling
hardcover versions of this for around $20.00 not too long ago!)
I purchased of copy of this from http://www.omnicbc.com/
After getting my copy and not being too happy with the quality (I think
it's printed and bound in Australia), I decided to check Amazon and was
surprised to see they actually had it in hardcover for about the same
price as Omni's paperback version.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-4179181-4278509?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=The+Jewish+Religion%3A+Its+Influence+Today&Go.x=10&Go.y=12
Post by Ø
http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/index.html
This one is NOT sold by Amazon, and is being sold by two booksellers for
$149.98 and $175.00.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-4179181-4278509?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Waters+Flowing+Eastward&Go.x=10&Go.y=11
This on is NOT sold by Amazon, and is being sold by some booksellers at
prices ranging from $9.45 - $115.66.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
There is no such list.
I say there is such a list. It's unofficial, but it's there.
Try asking for these books at your library.
try asking for a book about the Sufis at your local Christian church
local libraries often make mistakes in "banning books" but they are
also restricted by finances and often sell of classic works because
they are not often requested and they need the shelf space...I suggest
that most universities would have such books available and they can
often be found on eBay and from other online book sellers including
Amazon often at reasonable prices...see the Amazon links following the
":" on your list above
OK. The SanFranciscoPL has the Protocols of Zion by translated by Marsden.
Controversy of Zion - No, but it has other books by the author
Elizabeth Dilling doesn't even show up.
Leslie Fry doesn't show up.

When I enter my public library, I'm never surprised to see at least one
blatantly Zionist book in the "New Books" section. They either hype up a
non-existent "Islamic" threat, or try to sell us a romanticized version of
Israel and its maniacal/genocidal leaders. That's one thing you can count
on. I guess it would be unrealistic to have something offering a point of
view from those being genocided.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
scenario #2 seems to suggest just a crime without regard to
hate...just a brutal theft resulting in murder...although I don't
agree necessarily with a lighter sentence.
Maybe BOTH should get the heavier sentence. I DON'T CARE.
You don't bash people's heads in, that's all.
(Please don't play games and bring up self-defense.)
why not? would you not kill if it was the only way to save the life of
your wife, child, mother, father. etc
Post by Ø
All I'm saying is "hate" should not be part of the formula.
We don't want Homeland Security coming down on American citizens.
This is EXACTLY what will happen if we go down this Orwellian path.
I am not aware that Homeland Security would be the enforcer of such
anti-hate laws
They will be. Local police forces are already "coordinating" and working
closely with Homeland Security. They'll get their orders from the top Zio-
honchos at Homeland (ie Israel). ;-).

They'll move it on the unsuspecting cud-chewers by equating hate with
terrorism, and anti-Semitism as the worst form of hate.

Then Zioman will come-a-knockin' on your door. More than likely he'll ram
your door down, with the local "police" assisting. Neighbors had best not
ask questions.

I've already heard a Zioshill or two in Washington doing just that:
anti-Semitism => hate => terror.

What the hell is the US doing monitoring "anti-Semitism" throughout the
world? ZIOMAN TO THE RESCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUE!!! Who's running the US?


Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-04 21:46:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
http://www.rense.com/general77/strink.htm
ok, here is one falsehood...the above states "Freemasonry corrupts
everything it touches."...how does the Shriner's free burn center hospitals
corrupt
anything?(http://www.shrinershq.org/Hospitals/_Hospitals_for_Children/Shriners_Hospitals/burns.aspx

how can the author claim to know anything about the Masonic
initiations...either the author was initiated and broke his solemn oaths not
to reveal anything about the initiations or he got the information from
someone else who broke their oaths...in either case, the information comes
from untrustworthy individuals who took their oaths on the sacred scripture
of their choice and then violated their oaths.

based upon personal experience, many Masons are strong, intelligent,
challenging, and inquisitive truth-seeking individuals who would not blindly
follow anyone or anything...there are other basically uninformed Masons who
apparently joined primarily for social reasons but even these often support
the many Masonic charitable activities.

one of the precepts of Masonry is that Masonry cannot make a bad man good
but Masonry can help make a good man better...and there are good and bad men
in every sphere of society including marriage, parenthood, secret societies,
churches, political parties, etc.
Ø
2007-10-05 19:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
http://www.rense.com/general77/strink.htm
ok, here is one falsehood...the above states "Freemasonry corrupts
everything it touches."...how does the Shriner's free burn center
hospitals corrupt
anything?(http://www.shrinershq.org/Hospitals/_Hospitals_for_Children/S
hriners_Hospitals/burns.aspx
The author agrees with John Quincy Adams, not that this proves the original
author's claim.

From Architects of Deception, p257, by J. Lina:
<begin_quote>
John Quincy Adams (1825-1829), president of the United States, was a
determined opponent of the secret society and fraternity of freemasonry.
He thought, "Masonry ought forever to be abolished". Adams stated: "It is
wrong - essentially wrong - a seed of evil, which can never produce any
good... The existence of such an order is a foul blot upon the morals of a
community." (Wiliam G. Sibley, "The Story of Freemasonry", 1913)
<end_quote>

See quote at bottom of my post. :-)
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
how can the author claim to know anything about the Masonic
initiations...either the author was initiated and broke his solemn
oaths not to reveal anything about the initiations or he got the
information from someone else who broke their oaths...in either case,
the information comes from untrustworthy individuals who took their
oaths on the sacred scripture of their choice and then violated their
oaths.
Or maybe the people who broke their oaths saw they were engaged in a
criminal enterprise and didn't want to be part of it. Why not expose it?
Whistleblowers, if you will.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
based upon personal experience, many Masons are strong, intelligent,
challenging, and inquisitive truth-seeking individuals who would not
blindly follow anyone or anything...
Really?
Here's a quote from Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma:
http://www.albertpike.org/
http://www.freedom-ministries.com/downlads/Morals-And-Dogma-By-Albert-Pike.pdf
<begin_quote>
Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and
Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the
Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols
to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth,
which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is
not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert
it.
<end_quote>

Unless the Masons you know are Adepts, Sages, or Elect, then they are
being given false explanations and misinterpretations of its "symbols". In
others words, they are being hoodwinked.

If/Once they reach the degrees Pike lists, they'll definitely lie to you,
because the psychopaths will rise to the top. The people with conscience
will either leave or remain at the lower degrees.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
there are other basically
uninformed Masons who apparently joined primarily for social reasons
but even these often support the many Masonic charitable activities.
Now, isn't that just nice!
As above, so below...
Let's take a look at the "below" side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due

Not that it's really much different from the "above" side.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
one of the precepts of Masonry is that Masonry cannot make a bad man
good but Masonry can help make a good man better...and there are good
and bad men in every sphere of society including marriage, parenthood,
secret societies, churches, political parties, etc.
Wow! Such high ideals! How wonderful!

Heeeeeeeere it Comes!!!!!

--------
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto
whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within
full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also
outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy
and iniquity.
Matthew 27,28
-----------

Masons have taken up the ways of the scribes and Pharisees.
The Adepts, Sages, and Elect ARE scribes and Pharisees.

Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-05 20:53:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
http://www.rense.com/general77/strink.htm
ok, here is one falsehood...the above states "Freemasonry corrupts
everything it touches."...how does the Shriner's free burn center
hospitals corrupt
anything?(http://www.shrinershq.org/Hospitals/_Hospitals_for_Children/S
hriners_Hospitals/burns.aspx
The author agrees with John Quincy Adams, not that this proves the original
author's claim.
<begin_quote>
John Quincy Adams (1825-1829), president of the United States, was a
determined opponent of the secret society and fraternity of freemasonry.
He thought, "Masonry ought forever to be abolished". Adams stated: "It is
wrong - essentially wrong - a seed of evil, which can never produce any
good... The existence of such an order is a foul blot upon the morals of a
community." (Wiliam G. Sibley, "The Story of Freemasonry", 1913)
<end_quote>
it was his right to disagree and is still the right of anyone to disagree
Post by Ø
See quote at bottom of my post. :-)
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
how can the author claim to know anything about the Masonic
initiations...either the author was initiated and broke his solemn
oaths not to reveal anything about the initiations or he got the
information from someone else who broke their oaths...in either case,
the information comes from untrustworthy individuals who took their
oaths on the sacred scripture of their choice and then violated their
oaths.
Or maybe the people who broke their oaths saw they were engaged in a
criminal enterprise and didn't want to be part of it. Why not expose it?
Whistleblowers, if you will.
humm...if a soldier believes a war is a criminal enterprise and breaks
his/her oath, it is called treason??? for me, a sacred oath is a sacred
oath...but for many, a vow or oath are just words...just look at the amount
of marital infidelity, politicians who do not uphold the constitution,
government officials who swear to tell the truth to congress and then
lie...the list goes on and on
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
based upon personal experience, many Masons are strong, intelligent,
challenging, and inquisitive truth-seeking individuals who would not
blindly follow anyone or anything...
Really?
http://www.albertpike.org/
http://www.freedom-ministries.com/downlads/Morals-And-Dogma-By-Albert-Pike.pdf
<begin_quote>
Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and
Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the
Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols
to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth,
which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is
not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert
it.
<end_quote>
almost all religions (Masonry is not a religion) have adepts who only share
deeper mysteries with those students/followers who qualify for deeper
understanding...according to the Bible many of the disciples could not even
stay awake so how could they know the mysteries Jesus was trying to teach?
Post by Ø
Unless the Masons you know are Adepts, Sages, or Elect, then they are
being given false explanations and misinterpretations of its "symbols". In
others words, they are being hoodwinked.
the masons I spoke of continually search for the deeper meaning of symbols
and the knowledge which comes with such searching and study...only the 33rd
Degree Masons have access to teachings beyond the 32nd Degree which is
available to almost any Mason who desires to proceed beyond the 3rd Degree
(at least in the US...other Rites of Masonry can vary from the US Rites).
Post by Ø
If/Once they reach the degrees Pike lists, they'll definitely lie to you,
because the psychopaths will rise to the top. The people with conscience
will either leave or remain at the lower degrees.
your opinion! based upon what?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
there are other basically
uninformed Masons who apparently joined primarily for social reasons
but even these often support the many Masonic charitable activities.
Now, isn't that just nice!
As above, so below...
Let's take a look at the "below" side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due
Not that it's really much different from the "above" side.
much like the "Christian" KKK members and all those who either supported
them or turned a blind eye...much like "Christian" ministries which preach
one thing a doe another including amassing great wealth instead of giving up
everything to the poor and needy!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
one of the precepts of Masonry is that Masonry cannot make a bad man
good but Masonry can help make a good man better...and there are good
and bad men in every sphere of society including marriage, parenthood,
secret societies, churches, political parties, etc.
Wow! Such high ideals! How wonderful!
you prefer low ideals? get serious...all religions and many societies claim
provide ways to make mankind better but often fail or become corrupted...BUT
the ideal is worth pursuing!
Post by Ø
Heeeeeeeere it Comes!!!!!
--------
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto
whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within
full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also
outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy
and iniquity.
Matthew 27,28
-----------
Masons have taken up the ways of the scribes and Pharisees.
The Adepts, Sages, and Elect ARE scribes and Pharisees.
so you say...do you know any of this from personal experience or are you
blindly following someone with a different perspective/agenda? are you now
using the Bible to attempt to prove/support your opinions?

again, you simply say "Masons have..." which implies ALL Masons...if what
you state does not apply to just one Mason then your statement is FALSE...be
more specific with your logic!

as for facts, some famous "Christian" evangelists have proved to be
hypocrites especially regarding sexual matters...and most of them are rich
compared to their followers who are on the poor side! But notice I said
"some" which does not imply ALL evangelists!
Ø
2007-10-09 19:00:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
http://www.rense.com/general77/strink.htm
ok, here is one falsehood...the above states "Freemasonry corrupts
everything it touches."...how does the Shriner's free burn center
hospitals corrupt
anything?(http://www.shrinershq.org/Hospitals/_Hospitals_for_Children
/S hriners_Hospitals/burns.aspx
The author agrees with John Quincy Adams, not that this proves the original
author's claim.
<begin_quote>
John Quincy Adams (1825-1829), president of the United States, was a
determined opponent of the secret society and fraternity of
freemasonry. He thought, "Masonry ought forever to be abolished".
Adams stated: "It is wrong - essentially wrong - a seed of evil,
which can never produce any good... The existence of such an order is
a foul blot upon the morals of a community." (Wiliam G. Sibley, "The
Story of Freemasonry", 1913) <end_quote>
it was his right to disagree and is still the right of anyone to disagree
Post by Ø
See quote at bottom of my post. :-)
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
how can the author claim to know anything about the Masonic
initiations...either the author was initiated and broke his solemn
oaths not to reveal anything about the initiations or he got the
information from someone else who broke their oaths...in either
case, the information comes from untrustworthy individuals who took
their oaths on the sacred scripture of their choice and then
violated their oaths.
Or maybe the people who broke their oaths saw they were engaged in a
criminal enterprise and didn't want to be part of it. Why not expose
it? Whistleblowers, if you will.
humm...if a soldier believes a war is a criminal enterprise and breaks
his/her oath, it is called treason???
Called "treason" by which entity?
The "government" that sent him on the criminal enterprise?
What exactly in the "oath" is this soldier breaking?
He'll be used and thrown away by the very govt and politicians he kills
for.
The govt is guilty of treason when it lies to its citizens.
To hire and pay people to lie to you is stupidity.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
for me, a sacred oath is a
sacred oath...but for many, a vow or oath are just words...just look
at the amount of marital infidelity, politicians who do not uphold the
constitution, government officials who swear to tell the truth to
congress and then lie...the list goes on and on
As far as I know, your list does *not* include secret oaths.

What if you find the organization you made the the secret vow to has been
lying to you and using you all along? Do you just keep going along?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
based upon personal experience, many Masons are strong, intelligent,
challenging, and inquisitive truth-seeking individuals who would not
blindly follow anyone or anything...
Really?
http://www.albertpike.org/
http://www.freedom-ministries.com/downlads/Morals-And-Dogma-By-Albert-
Pike.pdf <begin_quote>
Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and
Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages,
or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of
its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to
conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them
away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to
receive it, or would pervert it.
<end_quote>
almost all religions (Masonry is not a religion)
have adepts who only
share deeper mysteries with those students/followers who qualify for
deeper understanding...according to the Bible many of the disciples
could not even stay awake so how could they know the mysteries Jesus
was trying to teach?
Post by Ø
Unless the Masons you know are Adepts, Sages, or Elect, then they are
being given false explanations and misinterpretations of its
"symbols". In others words, they are being hoodwinked.
the masons I spoke of continually search for the deeper meaning of
symbols and the knowledge which comes with such searching and
study...
only the 33rd Degree Masons have access to teachings beyond
the 32nd Degree which is available to almost any Mason who desires to
proceed beyond the 3rd Degree (at least in the US...other Rites of
Masonry can vary from the US Rites).
Post by Ø
If/Once they reach the degrees Pike lists, they'll definitely lie to
you, because the psychopaths will rise to the top. The people with
conscience will either leave or remain at the lower degrees.
your opinion! based upon what?
Not my "opinion". I'll post more on this in the future.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
there are other basically
uninformed Masons who apparently joined primarily for social reasons
but even these often support the many Masonic charitable activities.
Now, isn't that just nice!
As above, so below...
Let's take a look at the "below" side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due
Not that it's really much different from the "above" side.
much like the "Christian" KKK members and all those who either
supported them or turned a blind eye...much like "Christian"
ministries which preach one thing a doe another including amassing
great wealth instead of giving up everything to the poor and needy!
The "Christian" bad stuff has been exposed by the Judeo-Masonic media.
Time to focus on Talmudism.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
one of the precepts of Masonry is that Masonry cannot make a bad man
good but Masonry can help make a good man better...and there are
good and bad men in every sphere of society including marriage,
parenthood, secret societies, churches, political parties, etc.
Wow! Such high ideals! How wonderful!
you prefer low ideals? get serious...all religions and many societies
claim provide ways to make mankind better but often fail or become
corrupted...BUT the ideal is worth pursuing!
And you think secret societies* are the way to go?
Secret oaths?

*(or societies with secrets, as Freemasons quip)
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Heeeeeeeere it Comes!!!!!
--------
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto
whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are
within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye
also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of
hypocrisy and iniquity.
Matthew 27,28
-----------
Masons have taken up the ways of the scribes and Pharisees.
The Adepts, Sages, and Elect ARE scribes and Pharisees.
so you say...do you know any of this from personal experience
I say it based on my study and observation of these modern day Pharisees.
If it walks like a Pharisee and quacks like a Pharisee...
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
or are
you blindly following someone with a different perspective/agenda?
No, I'm not. What gives you that strange idea?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
are
you now using the Bible to attempt to prove/support your opinions?
Not to "prove", my opinions certainly.
Support is probably closer to the truth.

The new testament has some great passages exposing these hypocritical
Pharisees and the money changers. The same people that are causing
problems to this very day.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
again, you simply say "Masons have..." which implies ALL Masons...if
what you state does not apply to just one Mason then your statement is
FALSE...be more specific with your logic!
I've already said people with a conscience would either leave Masonry or
remain at the lower degrees. It should be OBVIOUS that I'm not making a
statement about ALL MASONS. I've already made clear I was referring to the
Adept, Sages or Elect. How difficult is that to grasp?

I'm not going to keep explictly introducing quantifiers in EVERY* statement
just to please you. It should be clear from what I've posted before what I
mean.

*"EVERY" here is logically equivalent to "ALL"...
...ie, EVERY if and only if ALL.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
as for facts, some famous "Christian" evangelists have proved to be
hypocrites especially regarding sexual matters...
That's been exposed in the Judeo-Masonic media.
Time to focus on Talmudism.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
and most of them are
rich compared to their followers who are on the poor side! But notice
I said "some" which does not imply ALL evangelists!
That's been played-out by the Judeo-Masonic media.
Time to focus on Talmudism before it's too late for humanity.

Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-10 02:46:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
for me, a sacred oath is a
sacred oath...but for many, a vow or oath are just words...just look
at the amount of marital infidelity, politicians who do not uphold the
constitution, government officials who swear to tell the truth to
congress and then lie...the list goes on and on
As far as I know, your list does *not* include secret oaths.
of course, it does
Post by Ø
What if you find the organization you made the the secret vow to has been
lying to you and using you all along? Do you just keep going along?
absolutely not, quit the organization and stop supporting them BUT do not
break your sacred oath regarding "secrets"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
your opinion! based upon what?
Not my "opinion". I'll post more on this in the future.
so you were a Mason or a member of a "secret society"???
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
you prefer low ideals? get serious...all religions and many societies
claim provide ways to make mankind better but often fail or become
corrupted...BUT the ideal is worth pursuing!
And you think secret societies* are the way to go?
Secret oaths?
*(or societies with secrets, as Freemasons quip)
could be for some folks
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Masons have taken up the ways of the scribes and Pharisees.
The Adepts, Sages, and Elect ARE scribes and Pharisees.
so you say...do you know any of this from personal experience
I say it based on my study and observation of these modern day Pharisees.
If it walks like a Pharisee and quacks like a Pharisee...
you personally know a lot of Masons or members of societies/groups with
secrets?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
again, you simply say "Masons have..." which implies ALL Masons...if
what you state does not apply to just one Mason then your statement is
FALSE...be more specific with your logic!
I've already said people with a conscience would either leave Masonry or
remain at the lower degrees. It should be OBVIOUS that I'm not making a
statement about ALL MASONS. I've already made clear I was referring to the
Adept, Sages or Elect. How difficult is that to grasp?
I'm not going to keep explictly introducing quantifiers in EVERY* statement
just to please you. It should be clear from what I've posted before what I
mean.
*"EVERY" here is logically equivalent to "ALL"...
...ie, EVERY if and only if ALL.
you mean I should be able to say that your sources of information are full
of crap and a bunch of liars? and that you would know that I meant that at
least some ofur your sources...
Post by Ø
That's been played-out by the Judeo-Masonic media.
Time to focus on Talmudism before it's too late for humanity.
so you claim but not from personal experience!
Ø
2007-10-10 20:00:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
for me, a sacred oath is a
sacred oath...but for many, a vow or oath are just words...just look
at the amount of marital infidelity, politicians who do not uphold
the constitution, government officials who swear to tell the truth
to congress and then lie...the list goes on and on
As far as I know, your list does *not* include secret oaths.
of course, it does
Post by Ø
What if you find the organization you made the the secret vow to has
been lying to you and using you all along? Do you just keep going
along?
absolutely not, quit the organization and stop supporting them BUT do
not break your sacred oath regarding "secrets"
What if you discovered millions would die?
You'd feel no compunction whatsoever to divulge the "secrets"?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
your opinion! based upon what?
Not my "opinion". I'll post more on this in the future.
so you were a Mason or a member of a "secret society"???
No. Do I have to be?
If I _were_ a member you'd say my testimony is no good because I violated
my "sacred oath" and am therefore "untrustworthy". If I'm _not_ a member
you'd say I don't know what I speak of.

Are you saying it's ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE for those who have not been
initiated to find out about these secret (not sacred) oaths?

Horns of a dilemma!
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
you prefer low ideals? get serious...all religions and many
societies claim provide ways to make mankind better but often fail
or become corrupted...BUT the ideal is worth pursuing!
And you think secret societies* are the way to go?
Secret oaths?
*(or societies with secrets, as Freemasons quip)
could be for some folks
I see you're not above speculation! Good for you!
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Masons have taken up the ways of the scribes and Pharisees.
The Adepts, Sages, and Elect ARE scribes and Pharisees.
so you say...do you know any of this from personal experience
I say it based on my study and observation of these modern day
Pharisees. If it walks like a Pharisee and quacks like a Pharisee...
you personally know a lot of Masons or members of societies/groups
with secrets?
Why do I have to personally know Masons?
I don't have to personally know the GWBush to know he's corrupt.
I don't have to personally know AbeFoxman to know he's a Pharisee.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
again, you simply say "Masons have..." which implies ALL Masons...if
what you state does not apply to just one Mason then your statement
is FALSE...be more specific with your logic!
I've already said people with a conscience would either leave Masonry
or remain at the lower degrees. It should be OBVIOUS that I'm not
making a statement about ALL MASONS. I've already made clear I was
referring to the Adept, Sages or Elect. How difficult is that to
grasp?
I'm not going to keep explictly introducing quantifiers in EVERY* statement
just to please you. It should be clear from what I've posted before
what I mean.
*"EVERY" here is logically equivalent to "ALL"...
...ie, EVERY if and only if ALL.
you mean I should be able to say that your sources of information are
full of crap and a bunch of liars? and that you would know that I
meant that at least some ofur your sources...
Yes, I think I would understand.
I rarely use the word "All" when speaking of Catholics, Baptists, Jews,
Muslims... because I know there are differences between individuals.
I would feel confident making more categorical statements about
Lubavitchers, Hagee followers, or higher level freemasons, yet even there
I'd have to allow for cases that don't fit the mold.

People are not numerical entities. I'd have NO problem making statements
about ALL integers, for example. I'm not going to make them about ALL
"these people" or ALL "those people".
Except ALL morons, idiots, etc!
That crosses all borders, ethnicities.
Imbeciles sans frontieres.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
That's been played-out by the Judeo-Masonic media.
Time to focus on Talmudism before it's too late for humanity.
so you claim but not from personal experience!
Frankly, I think your comments are bordering on the absurd.
What EXACTLY are you talking about?
You haven't made your case. You are being pedantic and unreasonable.

Let's look at some of your very recent statements:
##############
From: "Dennis M. Reed \"Califa\"" <***@dmreed.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.afro-latin
Subject: Re: [ot] New Right De-Emphasizes Hate Bill, by Ted Pike
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 13:53:39 -0700
Message-ID: <ECxNi.156151$***@newsfe15.phx>

---------
much like the "Christian" KKK members and all those who either supported
them or turned a blind eye...much like "Christian" ministries which preach
one thing a doe another including amassing great wealth instead of giving
up everything to the poor and needy!
--------
as for facts, some famous "Christian" evangelists have proved to be
hypocrites especially regarding sexual matters...and most of them are rich
compared to their followers who are on the poor side! But notice I said
"some" which does not imply ALL evangelists!
----------
###############

Do you know about "Christian" KKK members and all these "facts" you spew
out about 'famous "Christian" evangelists' from "personal experience"?

How do you "know" most of this?

Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-10 20:57:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
absolutely not, quit the organization and stop supporting them BUT do
not break your sacred oath regarding "secrets"
What if you discovered millions would die?
You'd feel no compunction whatsoever to divulge the "secrets"?
good question, I do not know BUT are we talking about such a secret society?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
so you were a Mason or a member of a "secret society"???
No. Do I have to be?
If I _were_ a member you'd say my testimony is no good because I violated
my "sacred oath" and am therefore "untrustworthy". If I'm _not_ a member
you'd say I don't know what I speak of.
one can speak about much of masonry without breaking one's vows...but if you
do not belong, then what you claim is just hearsay
Post by Ø
Are you saying it's ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE for those who have not been
initiated to find out about these secret (not sacred) oaths?
not necessarily but how would you know for sure
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Masons have taken up the ways of the scribes and Pharisees.
The Adepts, Sages, and Elect ARE scribes and Pharisees.
so you say...do you know any of this from personal experience
I say it based on my study and observation of these modern day
Pharisees. If it walks like a Pharisee and quacks like a Pharisee...
you personally know a lot of Masons or members of societies/groups
with secrets?
Why do I have to personally know Masons?
I don't have to personally know the GWBush to know he's corrupt.
I don't have to personally know AbeFoxman to know he's a Pharisee.
ok but what direct evidence do you have that Masons are Pharisees?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
you mean I should be able to say that your sources of information are
full of crap and a bunch of liars? and that you would know that I
meant that at least some ofur your sources...
Yes, I think I would understand.
I rarely use the word "All" when speaking of Catholics, Baptists, Jews,
Muslims... because I know there are differences between individuals.
I would feel confident making more categorical statements about
Lubavitchers, Hagee followers, or higher level freemasons, yet even there
I'd have to allow for cases that don't fit the mold.
People are not numerical entities. I'd have NO problem making statements
about ALL integers, for example. I'm not going to make them about ALL
"these people" or ALL "those people".
Except ALL morons, idiots, etc!
That crosses all borders, ethnicities.
Imbeciles sans frontieres.
OK
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
That's been played-out by the Judeo-Masonic media.
Time to focus on Talmudism before it's too late for humanity.
so you claim but not from personal experience!
Frankly, I think your comments are bordering on the absurd.
What EXACTLY are you talking about?
You haven't made your case. You are being pedantic and unreasonable.
unreasonable?...I usually try to speak from personal experience or
observation, not just what someone else has written or said...can you claim
the same?
Ø
2007-10-11 16:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
absolutely not, quit the organization and stop supporting them BUT
do not break your sacred oath regarding "secrets"
What if you discovered millions would die?
You'd feel no compunction whatsoever to divulge the "secrets"?
good question, I do not know BUT are we talking about such a secret society?
JFK said it was a clear and present danger:
He described it as a "deadly challenge".
A war that "may never be declared in a traditional fashion".
"No borders have been crossed by marching troops."
"No war ever posed a greater threat to our security."
A group that relies on infiltration, subversion and intimidation.

He is describing, IMO, Judeo-Masonry and affiliated secret societies. I've
posted about this in the past, but I'll post more in the future (along
with some reposts).
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
so you were a Mason or a member of a "secret society"???
No. Do I have to be?
If I _were_ a member you'd say my testimony is no good because I
violated my "sacred oath" and am therefore "untrustworthy". If I'm
_not_ a member you'd say I don't know what I speak of.
one can speak about much of masonry without breaking one's vows...but
if you do not belong, then what you claim is just hearsay
You recently made the following remark about the President of Iran:
########################
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.afro-
latin/msg/3dce0c3b313873db?dmode=source
--------------------
From: "Dennis M. Reed \"Califa\"" <***@dmreed.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.afro-latin
Subject: Re: [ot] 'Israel behind secret land grab'
Message-ID: <64yli.52784$***@newsfe03.phx>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:38:29 -0700

however, it is quite clear that Iran's President has called for the
destruction of Israel.
-------------


How did you know this "for sure"?
You didn't base your comments on hearsay?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Are you saying it's ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE for those who have not been
initiated to find out about these secret (not sacred) oaths?
not necessarily but how would you know for sure
I don't think I could say I "know for sure".
I don't pretend to have perfect/complete information here.
I can make a very strong case that what I say is (mostly) accurate.




If you want to "know for sure", watch FOX News.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Masons have taken up the ways of the scribes and Pharisees.
The Adepts, Sages, and Elect ARE scribes and Pharisees.
so you say...do you know any of this from personal experience
I say it based on my study and observation of these modern day
Pharisees. If it walks like a Pharisee and quacks like a
Pharisee...
you personally know a lot of Masons or members of societies/groups
with secrets?
Why do I have to personally know Masons?
I don't have to personally know the GWBush to know he's corrupt.
I don't have to personally know AbeFoxman to know he's a Pharisee.
ok but what direct evidence do you have that Masons are Pharisees?
I'll offer a few quotes from the Pharisees' mouth:

------------
"The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent, without a break,
through all the centuries, from the Pharisees."
— Universal Jewish Encyclopedia


The rabbi Isaac Wise (1819-1900), chairman of B'nai B'rith's
suborganization in Cincinnati, Ohio, explained that "freemasonry is a
Jewish establishment, whose history, grades, official appointments,
passwords, and explanations are Jewish from beginning to end"
(Israelite of America, 3 August 1866).

"The most important duty of freemasonry must be to glorify the Jews, which
has preserved the unchanged divine standard of wisdom."
Le Symbolisme (July 1928)
[Sounds almost like Fundamentalist "Christianity" nowadays, doesn't it?]

"In the present nations, freemasonry is only of benefit to the Jews, but
it shall be abolished later."
[Maybe the same can be said for "Fundamentalist Christianity"?]
--Theodor Herzl
========================



Mostly, my direct evidence, as I have already said, is observation, study,
and comparing their actions to how they are described in the New
Testament--by their fruits.

****************
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto
life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but
inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or
figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree
bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree
bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into
the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:14-20

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto
whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are
within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye
also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of
hypocrisy and iniquity.
Matthew 23:27-28
**************

Masonry's "outward" side (the exoteric) side is the beautiful "whited
sepulchre".
The "within" side (the esoteric) is full of dead mens bones, hypocrisy and
iniquity.

The corrupt tree of Masonry cannot bring forth good fruit.

You don't even have to be "religious" to pick up on this.
You can just look at it as a political document.

Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-11 19:12:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
########################
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.afro-
latin/msg/3dce0c3b313873db?dmode=source
--------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.afro-latin
Subject: Re: [ot] 'Israel behind secret land grab'
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:38:29 -0700
however, it is quite clear that Iran's President has called for the
destruction of Israel.
How did you know this "for sure"?
You didn't base your comments on hearsay?
unless the translation of one of his speechs on TV was incorrect...it is not
hearsay
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Are you saying it's ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE for those who have not been
initiated to find out about these secret (not sacred) oaths?
not necessarily but how would you know for sure
I don't think I could say I "know for sure".
I don't pretend to have perfect/complete information here.
I can make a very strong case that what I say is (mostly) accurate.
I said sacred oath because the oath is taken upon the sacred text of one's
choosing
Post by Ø
If you want to "know for sure", watch FOX News.
you must be joking!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
I say it based on my study and observation of these modern day
Pharisees. If it walks like a Pharisee and quacks like a
Pharisee...
you personally know a lot of Masons or members of societies/groups
with secrets?
Why do I have to personally know Masons?
I don't have to personally know the GWBush to know he's corrupt.
I don't have to personally know AbeFoxman to know he's a Pharisee.
ok but what direct evidence do you have that Masons are Pharisees?
------------
"The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent, without a break,
through all the centuries, from the Pharisees."
- Universal Jewish Encyclopedia
The rabbi Isaac Wise (1819-1900), chairman of B'nai B'rith's
suborganization in Cincinnati, Ohio, explained that "freemasonry is a
Jewish establishment, whose history, grades, official appointments,
passwords, and explanations are Jewish from beginning to end"
(Israelite of America, 3 August 1866).
"The most important duty of freemasonry must be to glorify the Jews, which
has preserved the unchanged divine standard of wisdom."
Le Symbolisme (July 1928)
[Sounds almost like Fundamentalist "Christianity" nowadays, doesn't it?]
"In the present nations, freemasonry is only of benefit to the Jews, but
it shall be abolished later."
[Maybe the same can be said for "Fundamentalist Christianity"?]
--Theodor Herzl
========================
interesting but IMHO just his opinion
Post by Ø
Mostly, my direct evidence, as I have already said, is observation, study,
and comparing their actions to how they are described in the New
Testament--by their fruits.
the actions of whom? Masons? how do you know who the Masons are? what are
these so-called fruits to which you refer and have observed?>
you mean the New Testament which was culled by a group of Catholic bishops
and then culled again by the Protestants? who really knows what Jesus taught
and what the first Christians believed? does your study include many of the
books/writings/beliefs which were part of early Christianity but which were
excluded from the New Testament...many on religious-political grounds?
Post by Ø
****************
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto
life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but
inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or
figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree
bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree
bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into
the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:14-20
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto
whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are
within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye
also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of
hypocrisy and iniquity.
Matthew 23:27-28
**************
all well and good and it does make sense BUT who is this Matthew in whom you
seem to place so much faith....definitely not one of the disciples!

BTW Jesus did not speak English so what has been lost in the various
translations of his teachings? have you compared the Bible as translated
into Latin, Spanish, French, etc.? have you studied the Douay (Catholic)
Bible as contrasted to the King James (Protestant) Bible or the original
King James as compared to the current King James (again reduced in content)?
or translations from the Aramaic? what differences in meaning are there in
all these versions? which version is "correct", if any?

I personally have only slightly observed some differences because I am only
fluent in English but I have (in the past) noticed some differences.
Post by Ø
Masonry's "outward" side (the exoteric) side is the beautiful "whited
sepulchre".
The "within" side (the esoteric) is full of dead mens bones, hypocrisy and
iniquity.
again, so you say...others say something else
Post by Ø
The corrupt tree of Masonry cannot bring forth good fruit.
please include some examples of fruit from "the corrupt tree of Masonry"
especially those which you have personally observed
Post by Ø
You don't even have to be "religious" to pick up on this.
You can just look at it as a political document.
look at what as a political document? the Bible? yes, the Bible as we know
it is a political document.
Ø
2007-10-11 21:55:38 UTC
Permalink
<snip />
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
ok but what direct evidence do you have that Masons are Pharisees?
------------
"The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent, without a
break, through all the centuries, from the Pharisees."
- Universal Jewish Encyclopedia
The rabbi Isaac Wise (1819-1900), chairman of B'nai B'rith's
suborganization in Cincinnati, Ohio, explained that "freemasonry is a
Jewish establishment, whose history, grades, official appointments,
passwords, and explanations are Jewish from beginning to end"
(Israelite of America, 3 August 1866).
"The most important duty of freemasonry must be to glorify the Jews,
which has preserved the unchanged divine standard of wisdom."
Le Symbolisme (July 1928)
[Sounds almost like Fundamentalist "Christianity" nowadays, doesn't it?]
"In the present nations, freemasonry is only of benefit to the Jews,
but it shall be abolished later."
[Maybe the same can be said for "Fundamentalist Christianity"?]
--Theodor Herzl
========================
interesting but IMHO just his opinion
It wasn't just "his" opinion (whatever you meant by that).
That was Rabbi Wise, Theodor Herzl (the man wrongly credited with the
start of Zionism) and the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia.

Here's another quote:
---
The Jewish Tribune (New York) wrote on 28 October 1927: "Masonry is based
on Judaism. Eliminate the teachings of Judaism from the Masonic Ritual and
what is left?"
The Jewish Guardian admitted openly on 12 April 1922: "Freemasonry is born
out of Israel."
---

Even the Masonic site here has to dodge, zig and zag, and employ the old
name-calling technique that has always worked so well for them:

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry08.html#judaism

19. Aren't the freemasons parodying Judaism?
No.
While Christian fundamentalists and antisemites have their own reasons for
condemning masonic ritual or beliefs as being Enochian or Zadokite, Jewish
fundamentalists will make similar accusations for different reasons. The
accusation is not that Freemasonry is a religion, but that it is a pseudo-
religion; that it is a parody of Judaism. While, superficially, aspects of
the rituals of masonic concordant bodies may possibly be viewed as aping
Judaism, within regular Craft Freemasonry there is nothing in the ritual
or practices that would support this accusation. In the defence of the
concordant bodies, it should be stressed that the intent is certainly not
to belittle Judaism, nor do they consider the use of Judaic or Hebrew
titles to mean that they are engaged in religious practices. The ritual
pertains to the history of King Solomon’s Temple and the second Temple of
Herod. It would not be possible to represent or re-enact this history
without reference to the historical and legendary personages, many of whom
were priests.
------------
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Mostly, my direct evidence, as I have already said, is observation,
study, and comparing their actions to how they are described in the
New Testament--by their fruits.
the actions of whom? Masons? how do you know who the Masons are?
Why do you keep playing the IDIOT? Hmmmm?
Rabbi Wise was a MASON! B'nai B'rith is a freemasonic organization!
The ADL is another whited sepulchre, full of dead men's bones.
No place for hate, my goy ass! These people are into GENOCIDE!
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
what
are these so-called fruits to which you refer and have observed?>
you mean the New Testament which was culled by a group of Catholic
bishops and then culled again by the Protestants? who really knows
what Jesus taught and what the first Christians believed? does your
study include many of the books/writings/beliefs which were part of
early Christianity but which were excluded from the New
Testament...many on religious-political grounds?
Post by Ø
****************
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth
unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but
inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns,
or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree
bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt
tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast
into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:14-20
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto
whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are
within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye
also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of
hypocrisy and iniquity.
Matthew 23:27-28
**************
all well and good and it does make sense BUT who is this Matthew in
whom you seem to place so much faith....definitely not one of the
disciples!
I don't care if it was Anne Frank!
Just like I don't care WHO wrote the Protocols of Zion.
I care about the CONTENT!
Not STUPID arguments about WHO wrote it.

You say the passages I posted do make sense. I agree.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
BTW Jesus did not speak English
How do you know this for sure?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
so what has been lost in the various
translations of his teachings?
Damn! And I thought the "red-letter" text was what he said.
Where did I get *that* crazy idea from? I can't remember...
Oh, well!
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
have you compared the Bible as
translated into Latin, Spanish, French, etc.? have you studied the
Douay (Catholic) Bible as contrasted to the King James (Protestant)
Bible or the original King James as compared to the current King James
(again reduced in content)? or translations from the Aramaic? what
differences in meaning are there in all these versions? which version
is "correct", if any?
Let me see...
I pick the orange one! It's pweety! I liike pweety!
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
I personally have only slightly observed some differences because I am
only fluent in English but I have (in the past) noticed some
differences.
Post by Ø
Masonry's "outward" side (the exoteric) side is the beautiful "whited
sepulchre".
The "within" side (the esoteric) is full of dead mens bones,
hypocrisy and iniquity.
again, so you say...others say something else
There YOU go again.
The communist revolution in Russia was brutal and it was JUDEO-MASONIC!
exoteric: Whited Sepulchre (Worker's Paradise)
esoteric: DEAD MEN'S BONES (NKVD/KGB/GENOCIDE OF UKRAINIANS/BERLIN WALL).

And so *I* say.
Feel free to stick your head in the sand and claim that all is unknowable
if not first hand knowledge.
That is an incredibly STUPID position to take, but it's your right.
I hope I'm not misrepresenting your stand. If so, please correct me.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The corrupt tree of Masonry cannot bring forth good fruit.
please include some examples of fruit from "the corrupt tree of
Masonry" especially those which you have personally observed
See above.
Let's also add the slaughter of 1.5 MILLION Armenian Christians.
http://www.jewishracism.com/JewishGenocide.htm
JUDEO-MASONIC RITUAL MURDER.

And so *I* say.
And more and more people are becoming open to the notion that 9/11 may just
have been another act of ritual murder on their part, to get WWIII going.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
You don't even have to be "religious" to pick up on this.
You can just look at it as a political document.
look at what as a political document? the Bible? yes, the Bible as we
know it is a political document.
So you say. Others say something else.

Ø
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a
conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists."
-- J. Edgar Hoover
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/hoover_j/hoover_j.html

The *do* throw hints at the vulgar from time to time!
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-12 02:54:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
<snip />
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
ok but what direct evidence do you have that Masons are Pharisees?
------------
"The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent, without a
break, through all the centuries, from the Pharisees."
- Universal Jewish Encyclopedia
OK...so what
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The rabbi Isaac Wise (1819-1900), chairman of B'nai B'rith's
suborganization in Cincinnati, Ohio, explained that "freemasonry is a
Jewish establishment, whose history, grades, official appointments,
passwords, and explanations are Jewish from beginning to end"
(Israelite of America, 3 August 1866).
"The most important duty of freemasonry must be to glorify the Jews,
which has preserved the unchanged divine standard of wisdom."
Le Symbolisme (July 1928)
[Sounds almost like Fundamentalist "Christianity" nowadays, doesn't it?]
"In the present nations, freemasonry is only of benefit to the Jews,
but it shall be abolished later."
[Maybe the same can be said for "Fundamentalist Christianity"?]
--Theodor Herzl
========================
interesting but IMHO just his opinion
It wasn't just "his" opinion (whatever you meant by that).
That was Rabbi Wise, Theodor Herzl (the man wrongly credited with the
start of Zionism) and the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia.
---
The Jewish Tribune (New York) wrote on 28 October 1927: "Masonry is based
on Judaism. Eliminate the teachings of Judaism from the Masonic Ritual and
what is left?"
The Jewish Guardian admitted openly on 12 April 1922: "Freemasonry is born
out of Israel."
I find it interesting that all your references are over 75 years
old...biblioarcheology has uncovered and translated many documents which
would have greatly expanded those old opinions.
Post by Ø
Even the Masonic site here has to dodge, zig and zag, and employ the old
so what is wrong with teaching by symbolism? to what "old name-calling"
technique are you referring?
Post by Ø
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry08.html#judaism
19. Aren't the freemasons parodying Judaism?
No.
While Christian fundamentalists and antisemites have their own reasons for
condemning masonic ritual or beliefs as being Enochian or Zadokite, Jewish
fundamentalists will make similar accusations for different reasons. The
accusation is not that Freemasonry is a religion, but that it is a pseudo-
religion; that it is a parody of Judaism. While, superficially, aspects of
the rituals of masonic concordant bodies may possibly be viewed as aping
Judaism, within regular Craft Freemasonry there is nothing in the ritual
or practices that would support this accusation. In the defence of the
concordant bodies, it should be stressed that the intent is certainly not
to belittle Judaism, nor do they consider the use of Judaic or Hebrew
titles to mean that they are engaged in religious practices. The ritual
pertains to the history of King Solomon's Temple and the second Temple of
Herod. It would not be possible to represent or re-enact this history
without reference to the historical and legendary personages, many of whom
were priests.
of course, a psuedo-history of Solomon's Temple and the 2nd Temple are part
of the symbolic teaching...many Chistmas and Easter plays are essentially
rituals which attempt to represent or re-enact this "history" with reference
to historical and legendary personages!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Mostly, my direct evidence, as I have already said, is observation,
study, and comparing their actions to how they are described in the
New Testament--by their fruits.
the actions of whom? Masons? how do you know who the Masons are?
Why do you keep playing the IDIOT? Hmmmm?
Rabbi Wise was a MASON! B'nai B'rith is a freemasonic organization!
I have not seen any evidence that BB is associated with freemasonry...many
organizations have practices which are similar to or have masonic-like
rituals including the Odd Fellows, Mormons, Knights of columbus, etc., etc.
Post by Ø
The ADL is another whited sepulchre, full of dead men's bones.
No place for hate, my goy ass! These people are into GENOCIDE!
you mean they are like the Catholic Christian crusades, Prostestant witch
burnings, etc.?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
what
are these so-called fruits to which you refer and have observed?>
?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
you mean the New Testament which was culled by a group of Catholic
bishops and then culled again by the Protestants? who really knows
what Jesus taught and what the first Christians believed? does your
study include many of the books/writings/beliefs which were part of
early Christianity but which were excluded from the New
Testament...many on religious-political grounds?
?
Post by Ø
I don't care if it was Anne Frank!
Just like I don't care WHO wrote the Protocols of Zion.
I care about the CONTENT!
Not STUPID arguments about WHO wrote it.
You say the passages I posted do make sense. I agree.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
BTW Jesus did not speak English
How do you know this for sure?
come on now...be real!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
so what has been lost in the various
translations of his teachings?
Damn! And I thought the "red-letter" text was what he said.
Where did I get *that* crazy idea from? I can't remember...
Oh, well!
I have said that I would only take the red-letter text as what Jesus is
supposed to have taught...I have never said I believe it was what he taught
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
have you compared the Bible as
translated into Latin, Spanish, French, etc.? have you studied the
Douay (Catholic) Bible as contrasted to the King James (Protestant)
Bible or the original King James as compared to the current King James
(again reduced in content)? or translations from the Aramaic? what
differences in meaning are there in all these versions? which version
is "correct", if any?
Let me see...
I pick the orange one! It's pweety! I liike pweety!
so much for a serious discussion...a really stupid response to a serious
question regarding something you quoted to support your position.
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Masonry's "outward" side (the exoteric) side is the beautiful "whited
sepulchre".
The "within" side (the esoteric) is full of dead mens bones,
hypocrisy and iniquity.
again, so you say...others say something else
There YOU go again.
The communist revolution in Russia was brutal and it was JUDEO-MASONIC!
exoteric: Whited Sepulchre (Worker's Paradise)
esoteric: DEAD MEN'S BONES (NKVD/KGB/GENOCIDE OF UKRAINIANS/BERLIN WALL).
so you claim
Post by Ø
And so *I* say.
Feel free to stick your head in the sand and claim that all is unknowable
if not first hand knowledge.
That is an incredibly STUPID position to take, but it's your right.
I hope I'm not misrepresenting your stand. If so, please correct me.
not at all my stand, IMO first hand experience is paramount while second
hand knowledge is often valuable, e.g., scientific knowledge., but
historical knowledge has been and still is quite incomplete and distorted
which is why many folks view "history" as most likely simply "his story"!

all you seem to do is quote and reference (frequently old) works by others
and IMHO "That is an incredibly STUPID position to take, but it's your
right."
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The corrupt tree of Masonry cannot bring forth good fruit.
please include some examples of fruit from "the corrupt tree of
Masonry" especially those which you have personally observed
See above.
Let's also add the slaughter of 1.5 MILLION Armenian Christians.
http://www.jewishracism.com/JewishGenocide.htm
JUDEO-MASONIC RITUAL MURDER.
if what he says about the various members of Masonic Lodges is true, it only
shows that some Masons are responsible for extreme violence (as have been or
are Christians and other faiths)...the real gist of his talk seems to
indicate a desire of Armenian Jews, Kurds, and others to have political
states of their own, in contrast to being controlled by the Islamic Ottoman
Empire...it seems that Christians were also suppressed by the Ottomans for
many hundreds of years.

he also frequently says "I think" when expressing his beliefs...the fact
that "he thinks" something is true does not make it true. he also says that
the "King of the Jews" is a/the Messiah...not at all what most folks
consider the Messiah to be...Herod was a king of the Jews and was not a
messiah. the Jewish messiah will be a king but all Jewish kings have not and
are not messiahs. he seems to present many interesting historical
facts/findings but IMHO those facts do not necessarily lead to the
conclusions he proposes...BUT I have not really investigated his historical
findings.

he also mentions the Kabbalah but not in its historical meaning...it is a
mystical text and, similar to Islamic Sufis, Jewish Kabbalahists were
generally persecuted by their respective orthodox religions as were
Christian mystics.

Turkey does not even admit it was genocide (which is IMHO stupid)...the
Armenians also sided with the Russians who was fighting the Islamic Ottoman
Empire...so it appears that there is a strong political element to the
genocide.
Post by Ø
And so *I* say.
And more and more people are becoming open to the notion that 9/11 may just
have been another act of ritual murder on their part, to get WWIII going.
you are trying to say Al Queda is Masonic?
Post by Ø
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a
conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists."
-- J. Edgar Hoover
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/hoover_j/hoover_j.html
why would one ever listen to such a hypocritical person even if he was a
Mason?

I have never said all Masons were/are good men...I have known both good and
bad Masons...generally speaking, the good ones are/were very good honest and
upstanding men while the bad ones were generally quite ordinary men,
frequently bigoted, and ignorant of what Masonry really attempts to teach
and promote.

I wonder if Hoover wrote the above quote while dressed in women's underwear?
Ø
2007-10-12 20:00:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
<snip />
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
ok but what direct evidence do you have that Masons are Pharisees?
------------
"The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent, without a
break, through all the centuries, from the Pharisees."
- Universal Jewish Encyclopedia
OK...so what
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The rabbi Isaac Wise (1819-1900), chairman of B'nai B'rith's
suborganization in Cincinnati, Ohio, explained that "freemasonry is
a Jewish establishment, whose history, grades, official
appointments, passwords, and explanations are Jewish from beginning
to end" (Israelite of America, 3 August 1866).
"The most important duty of freemasonry must be to glorify the
Jews, which has preserved the unchanged divine standard of wisdom."
Le Symbolisme (July 1928)
[Sounds almost like Fundamentalist "Christianity" nowadays, doesn't it?]
"In the present nations, freemasonry is only of benefit to the
Jews, but it shall be abolished later."
[Maybe the same can be said for "Fundamentalist Christianity"?]
--Theodor Herzl
========================
interesting but IMHO just his opinion
It wasn't just "his" opinion (whatever you meant by that).
That was Rabbi Wise, Theodor Herzl (the man wrongly credited with the
start of Zionism) and the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia.
---
The Jewish Tribune (New York) wrote on 28 October 1927: "Masonry is
based on Judaism. Eliminate the teachings of Judaism from the Masonic
Ritual and what is left?"
The Jewish Guardian admitted openly on 12 April 1922: "Freemasonry is
born out of Israel."
I find it interesting that all your references are over 75 years
old...biblioarcheology has uncovered and translated many documents
which would have greatly expanded those old opinions.
Post by Ø
Even the Masonic site here has to dodge, zig and zag, and employ the
so what is wrong with teaching by symbolism?
There is nothing "wrong" with teaching by using symbolism, Like anything
else, it can be abused. That's why the cryps and bloods (hope I got the
names right) kill each other. One wears blue the other red.
Symbolism. STUPID.
One group has different "hand signals" from the other.
Symbolism. STUPID.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
to what "old
name-calling" technique are you referring?
It's just below. As usual start out by smearing.
Christian fundamentalists and antisemites. Then they go on to Jewish
fundamentalists. So, if you "condemn" masonic ritual and if you're not a
Cf or a Jf you must be an antisemite, or so they would have one believe.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry08.html#judaism
19. Aren't the freemasons parodying Judaism?
No.
While Christian fundamentalists and antisemites have their own
reasons for condemning masonic ritual or beliefs as being Enochian or
Zadokite, Jewish fundamentalists will make similar accusations for
different reasons. The accusation is not that Freemasonry is a
religion, but that it is a pseudo- religion; that it is a parody of
Judaism. While, superficially, aspects of the rituals of masonic
concordant bodies may possibly be viewed as aping Judaism, within
regular Craft Freemasonry there is nothing in the ritual or practices
that would support this accusation. In the defence of the concordant
bodies, it should be stressed that the intent is certainly not to
belittle Judaism, nor do they consider the use of Judaic or Hebrew
titles to mean that they are engaged in religious practices. The
ritual pertains to the history of King Solomon's Temple and the
second Temple of Herod. It would not be possible to represent or
re-enact this history without reference to the historical and
legendary personages, many of whom were priests.
of course, a psuedo-history of Solomon's Temple and the 2nd Temple are
part of the symbolic teaching...many Chistmas and Easter plays are
essentially rituals which attempt to represent or re-enact this
"history" with reference to historical and legendary personages!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Mostly, my direct evidence, as I have already said, is observation,
study, and comparing their actions to how they are described in the
New Testament--by their fruits.
the actions of whom? Masons? how do you know who the Masons are?
Why do you keep playing the IDIOT? Hmmmm?
Rabbi Wise was a MASON! B'nai B'rith is a freemasonic organization!
I have not seen any evidence that BB is associated with
freemasonry...many organizations have practices which are similar to
or have masonic-like rituals including the Odd Fellows, Mormons,
Knights of columbus, etc., etc.
My understanding is that Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other groups
were started by Masons.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The ADL is another whited sepulchre, full of dead men's bones.
No place for hate, my goy ass! These people are into GENOCIDE!
you mean they are like the Catholic Christian crusades, Prostestant
witch burnings, etc.?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
what
are these so-called fruits to which you refer and have observed?>
?
You haven't been paying attention. I'll more post in the future.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
you mean the New Testament which was culled by a group of Catholic
bishops and then culled again by the Protestants? who really knows
what Jesus taught and what the first Christians believed? does your
study include many of the books/writings/beliefs which were part of
early Christianity but which were excluded from the New
Testament...many on religious-political grounds?
WHO KNOWS IF AN *ISRAEL* EVER EXISTED?
If so, there are no accounts of this "kingdom" in Egyptian or Persian
historical texts of the time.

Re "My study": I HATE "studying" this CRAP! OK? I *HAVE* to study it
because this is the psychology that is driving a bunch of IDIOTS into
pushing for WWIII.

I WOULD NOT be "studying" this at all otherwise. That's why I joked about
your "which bible is correct" question.

MASONS, CHRISTIANS, JEWS, MUSLIMS *ALL* BE DAMNED!!!

There! I said "ALL"!

I didn't really mean all, because my parents are Christian. So they're
excluded. And their relatives too.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
I don't care if it was Anne Frank!
Just like I don't care WHO wrote the Protocols of Zion.
I care about the CONTENT!
Not STUPID arguments about WHO wrote it.
You say the passages I posted do make sense. I agree.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
BTW Jesus did not speak English
How do you know this for sure?
come on now...be real!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
so what has been lost in the various
translations of his teachings?
Damn! And I thought the "red-letter" text was what he said.
Where did I get *that* crazy idea from? I can't remember...
Oh, well!
I have said that I would only take the red-letter text as what Jesus
is supposed to have taught...I have never said I believe it was what
he taught
OK. I went back and reviewed the original quote. You said that for you,
this "red-letter" text in bibles is the only true Christianity. Your
statement above is correct, yet I don't follow the logic.

If for you, the red-letter text is the only true Christianity, and if you
don't believe that it was what Jesus taught, what defines "Christianity"
for you? Furthermore, you don't even know who decided what would be
included in the red-letter text. Seems a bit capricious, if you don't mind
my saying so.

I'm sure you'll explain.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
have you compared the Bible as
translated into Latin, Spanish, French, etc.? have you studied the
Douay (Catholic) Bible as contrasted to the King James (Protestant)
Bible or the original King James as compared to the current King
James (again reduced in content)? or translations from the Aramaic?
what differences in meaning are there in all these versions? which
version is "correct", if any?
Let me see...
I pick the orange one! It's pweety! I liike pweety!
so much for a serious discussion...a really stupid response to a
serious question regarding something you quoted to support your
position.
I'm sorry! What was the question again? Oh yeah!
I was offered a smorgasbord of bibles and told to pick the "correct"
version. This was supposed to be, in your words, "a serious question".
Again, I apologize. I thought you were making a some sort of satirical
joke with your question.
Can I have the KingJames in French with lettuce, but hold the mayo?

But seriously, I normally use the King James version because I downloaded
a free pdf copy of that years ago. Also, if I use any other version Yahweh
will smite me! So, I guess that's *my* "correct" version. Your mileage may
vary.

<snip />
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
And so *I* say.
Feel free to stick your head in the sand and claim that all is
unknowable if not first hand knowledge.
That is an incredibly STUPID position to take, but it's your right.
I hope I'm not misrepresenting your stand. If so, please correct me.
not at all my stand, IMO first hand experience is paramount while
second hand knowledge is often valuable, e.g., scientific knowledge.,
OK.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
but historical knowledge has been and still is quite incomplete and
distorted which is why many folks view "history" as most likely simply
"his story"!
Really? "his story"? Who is the "he" the "his" is referencing?
You say history is quite incomplete and distorted.
Why do you think this is?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
all you seem to do is quote and reference (frequently old) works by
others and IMHO "That is an incredibly STUPID position to take, but
it's your right."
Apparently, If I say something you say it's just my claim. I then SHOW you
why I say it, and then you complain that I reference works of others.
You seem to have some blockage here. I'll try to help you.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The corrupt tree of Masonry cannot bring forth good fruit.
please include some examples of fruit from "the corrupt tree of
Masonry" especially those which you have personally observed
See above.
Let's also add the slaughter of 1.5 MILLION Armenian Christians.
http://www.jewishracism.com/JewishGenocide.htm
JUDEO-MASONIC RITUAL MURDER.
if what he says about the various members of Masonic Lodges is true,
it only shows that some Masons are responsible for extreme violence
(as have been or are Christians and other faiths)...the real gist of
his talk seems to indicate a desire of Armenian Jews, Kurds, and
others to have political states of their own, in contrast to being
controlled by the Islamic Ottoman Empire...it seems that Christians
were also suppressed by the Ottomans for many hundreds of years.
he also frequently says "I think" when expressing his beliefs...the
fact that "he thinks" something is true does not make it true.
That's right.
Mr. Bjerknes is *very* careful with his words when he is being interviewed.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
he also
says that the "King of the Jews" is a/the Messiah...not at all what
most folks consider the Messiah to be...Herod was a king of the Jews
and was not a messiah. the Jewish messiah will be a king but all
Jewish kings have not and are not messiahs. he seems to present many
interesting historical facts/findings but IMHO those facts do not
necessarily lead to the conclusions he proposes...BUT I have not
really investigated his historical findings.
Can you say which interview you're referring to?
My understanding is that there are differences amongst Jews themselves
about this.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
he also mentions the Kabbalah but not in its historical meaning...it
is a mystical text and, similar to Islamic Sufis, Jewish Kabbalahists
were generally persecuted by their respective orthodox religions as
were Christian mystics.
Again: which interview? I'm sure he's talking about the Cabala in a way
that is relevant to the discussion without overloading the viewer/listener
with too many historical details.
But again, your statement shows that there are great differences of
opinion, even within Judaism.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Turkey does not even admit it was genocide (which is IMHO
stupid)...the Armenians also sided with the Russians who was fighting
the Islamic Ottoman Empire...so it appears that there is a strong
political element to the genocide.
"World Jewry" declared war on Germany.
You don't suppose...
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
And so *I* say.
And more and more people are becoming open to the notion that 9/11 may just
have been another act of ritual murder on their part, to get WWIII going.
you are trying to say Al Queda is Masonic?
Do you believe Al Queda did 9/11?
I never thought about it, but Al Qaeda just might be masonic.

I don't understand why these Neocons haven't erected binLaden statues in
every town square, since he gave them the "Pearl Harbor" type incident
they so badly wanted.

<snip />

Ø
"Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of
commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something.

They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so
watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had
better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation
of it."
--Woodrow Wilson
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-12 21:10:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
so what is wrong with teaching by symbolism?
There is nothing "wrong" with teaching by using symbolism, Like anything
else, it can be abused. That's why the cryps and bloods (hope I got the
names right) kill each other. One wears blue the other red.
Symbolism. STUPID.
One group has different "hand signals" from the other.
Symbolism. STUPID.
agreed but what does that have to do with masonic symbolism?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
to what "old
name-calling" technique are you referring?
It's just below. As usual start out by smearing.
Christian fundamentalists and antisemites. Then they go on to Jewish
fundamentalists. So, if you "condemn" masonic ritual and if you're not a
Cf or a Jf you must be an antisemite, or so they would have one believe.
what Masons have smeared CFs and JFs? but IMO some CFs deserved to have
their games exposed!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
I have not seen any evidence that BB is associated with
freemasonry...many organizations have practices which are similar to
or have masonic-like rituals including the Odd Fellows, Mormons,
Knights of columbus, etc., etc.
My understanding is that Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other groups
were started by Masons.
I don't know about JWs but true for Mormons except that my understanding is
that the founder quit Masonry before starting the Mormons...apparently he
borrowed some of the rituals

but what about my observation regarding B'nai B'rith and its association
with Masonry?

BTW just because someone is a Mason and belongs to or even starts another
group does not make that other group a Masonic group!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The ADL is another whited sepulchre, full of dead men's bones.
No place for hate, my goy ass! These people are into GENOCIDE!
you mean they are like the Catholic Christian crusades, Prostestant
witch burnings, etc.?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
what
are these so-called fruits to which you refer and have observed?>
?
You haven't been paying attention. I'll more post in the future.
of course I have but I haven't seen any definite proof in the examples you
have posted
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
you mean the New Testament which was culled by a group of Catholic
bishops and then culled again by the Protestants? who really knows
what Jesus taught and what the first Christians believed? does your
study include many of the books/writings/beliefs which were part of
early Christianity but which were excluded from the New
Testament...many on religious-political grounds?
WHO KNOWS IF AN *ISRAEL* EVER EXISTED?
If so, there are no accounts of this "kingdom" in Egyptian or Persian
historical texts of the time.
this is not my understanding based on quite a few History Channel
programs...of course, this is second hand information
Post by Ø
Re "My study": I HATE "studying" this CRAP! OK? I *HAVE* to study it
because this is the psychology that is driving a bunch of IDIOTS into
pushing for WWIII.
I WOULD NOT be "studying" this at all otherwise. That's why I joked about
your "which bible is correct" question.
MASONS, CHRISTIANS, JEWS, MUSLIMS *ALL* BE DAMNED!!!
There! I said "ALL"!
I didn't really mean all, because my parents are Christian. So they're
excluded. And their relatives too.
who is not to be damned in your opinion BUT why make exclusions...evil is
evil, stupid is stupid, etc.etc...even if related to you!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
BTW Jesus did not speak English
How do you know this for sure?
come on now...be real!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
so what has been lost in the various
translations of his teachings?
Damn! And I thought the "red-letter" text was what he said.
Where did I get *that* crazy idea from? I can't remember...
Oh, well!
I have said that I would only take the red-letter text as what Jesus
is supposed to have taught...I have never said I believe it was what
he taught
OK. I went back and reviewed the original quote. You said that for you,
this "red-letter" text in bibles is the only true Christianity. Your
statement above is correct, yet I don't follow the logic.
If for you, the red-letter text is the only true Christianity, and if you
don't believe that it was what Jesus taught, what defines "Christianity"
for you? Furthermore, you don't even know who decided what would be
included in the red-letter text. Seems a bit capricious, if you don't mind
my saying so.
I'm sure you'll explain.
when I discuss Christianity with Christians, I ony refer to the red-letter
texts
Post by Ø
I'm sorry! What was the question again? Oh yeah!
I was offered a smorgasbord of bibles and told to pick the "correct"
version. This was supposed to be, in your words, "a serious question".
Again, I apologize. I thought you were making a some sort of satirical
joke with your question.
Can I have the KingJames in French with lettuce, but hold the mayo?
But seriously, I normally use the King James version because I downloaded
a free pdf copy of that years ago. Also, if I use any other version Yahweh
will smite me! So, I guess that's *my* "correct" version. Your mileage may
vary.
you have used it to "prove" some of your arguments...what makes the KJ
version valid?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
but historical knowledge has been and still is quite incomplete and
distorted which is why many folks view "history" as most likely simply
"his story"!
Really? "his story"? Who is the "he" the "his" is referencing?
You say history is quite incomplete and distorted.
Why do you think this is?
"he" refers to whomever is stating what the history is...every history book
from time immemorial has been written someone with the limited knowledge of
the day and frequently with a politicical or religious agenda...e.g., what
books in US history did you read in high school which pointed out that
slaves generally were treated worse in the northern states than in the
southern states (according to recent forensic evidence uncovered in the
Black grave yard in NYC)?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
all you seem to do is quote and reference (frequently old) works by
others and IMHO "That is an incredibly STUPID position to take, but
it's your right."
Apparently, If I say something you say it's just my claim. I then SHOW you
why I say it, and then you complain that I reference works of others.
You seem to have some blockage here. I'll try to help you.
wrong...I have said that what you claim to be true is often based upon the
works of others and I frequently disagree or question the truth of your
sources...the truth of your sources, not the truth of whether or not they
have said what they said
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
if what he says about the various members of Masonic Lodges is true,
it only shows that some Masons are responsible for extreme violence
(as have been or are Christians and other faiths)...the real gist of
his talk seems to indicate a desire of Armenian Jews, Kurds, and
others to have political states of their own, in contrast to being
controlled by the Islamic Ottoman Empire...it seems that Christians
were also suppressed by the Ottomans for many hundreds of years.
he also frequently says "I think" when expressing his beliefs...the
fact that "he thinks" something is true does not make it true.
That's right.
Mr. Bjerknes is *very* careful with his words when he is being
interviewed.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
he also
says that the "King of the Jews" is a/the Messiah...not at all what
most folks consider the Messiah to be...Herod was a king of the Jews
and was not a messiah. the Jewish messiah will be a king but all
Jewish kings have not and are not messiahs. he seems to present many
interesting historical facts/findings but IMHO those facts do not
necessarily lead to the conclusions he proposes...BUT I have not
really investigated his historical findings.
Can you say which interview you're referring to?
the preview talk before the lectures
Post by Ø
My understanding is that there are differences amongst Jews themselves
about this.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
he also mentions the Kabbalah but not in its historical meaning...it
is a mystical text and, similar to Islamic Sufis, Jewish Kabbalahists
were generally persecuted by their respective orthodox religions as
were Christian mystics.
Again: which interview? I'm sure he's talking about the Cabala in a way
that is relevant to the discussion without overloading the viewer/listener
with too many historical details.
But again, your statement shows that there are great differences of
opinion, even within Judaism.
same talk
Post by Ø
"Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of
commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something.
They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so
watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had
better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation
of it."
--Woodrow Wilson
could be the extremely wealthy and those who continually try to make them
wealthier...sound like anyone you know in current politics?
Ø
2007-10-15 14:47:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
so what is wrong with teaching by symbolism?
There is nothing "wrong" with teaching by using symbolism, Like
anything else, it can be abused. That's why the cryps and bloods
(hope I got the names right) kill each other. One wears blue the
other red. Symbolism. STUPID.
One group has different "hand signals" from the other.
Symbolism. STUPID.
agreed but what does that have to do with masonic symbolism?
I don't know of the esoteric/occult use of Masonic symbolism, but the
statement I made is quite general and applies to _all_ forms of symbolism.

Just looking at some of the Masonic emblems, I see they have a certain
fondness for the skull&bones symbol. I don't think it takes much
imagination to see how that might be abused.
Some of their symbolism can clearly be used to further a Zionist agenda.

Of course, even words and pictograms are ultimately symbolic.
A quick example: when some people use the term "humanity", most people
assume it includes them.
But is this a valid assumption?
In some cases, it's not.

The high-level initiate and the profane can perceive the same symbols, but
interpret them in radically different ways.


There is nothing inherently "evil" about this, but there is definitely
plenty of room for abuse.
As I hope my example above demonstates, it's possible for someone to be
deceiving/misdirecting you, but not be "lying" to you.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
to what "old
name-calling" technique are you referring?
It's just below. As usual start out by smearing.
Christian fundamentalists and antisemites. Then they go on to Jewish
fundamentalists. So, if you "condemn" masonic ritual and if you're
not a Cf or a Jf you must be an antisemite, or so they would have one
believe.
what Masons have smeared CFs and JFs? but IMO some CFs deserved to
have their games exposed!
What about some JFs? Should they have their games (if any) exposed?

You don't think the media has exposed some CFs?
Do you have any particular CFs in mind you would like exposed?
What about Catholics? The media has helped expose clergy, hasn't it?

I have asked you the following before.
Below are your words. I have included the ref# so you can review the
context.


How do you,dmreed, know the following?
-------------
From: "Dennis M. Reed \"Califa\"" <***@dmreed.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.afro-latin
Subject: Re: [ot] New Right De-Emphasizes Hate Bill, by Ted Pike
Message-ID: <ECxNi.156151$***@newsfe15.phx>
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 13:53:39 -0700
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:01:24 MST

much like the "Christian" KKK members and all those who either supported
them or turned a blind eye...much like "Christian" ministries which preach
one thing a doe another including amassing great wealth instead of giving
up
everything to the poor and needy!


as for facts, some famous "Christian" evangelists have proved to be
hypocrites especially regarding sexual matters...and most of them are rich
compared to their followers who are on the poor side! But notice I said
"some" which does not imply ALL evangelists!
-----------

How do you know this?
This is not a rhetorical question.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
I have not seen any evidence that BB is associated with
freemasonry...many organizations have practices which are similar to
or have masonic-like rituals including the Odd Fellows, Mormons,
Knights of columbus, etc., etc.
My understanding is that Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other
groups were started by Masons.
I don't know about JWs but true for Mormons except that my
understanding is that the founder quit Masonry before starting the
Mormons...apparently he borrowed some of the rituals
There seems to be some plausible deniability in Russell's case.
If he wasn't a Mason, he sure tried to "talk the talk" in this discourse.
http://edwinr.chaosnet.org/1169453467/mason1.pdf
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
but what about my observation regarding B'nai B'rith and its
association with Masonry?
They're listed in my area:
http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/marin_bnai_brith.htm

And here:
http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/fraternalism/jewish_orders.htm
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
BTW just because someone is a Mason and belongs to or even starts
another group does not make that other group a Masonic group!
OK.
But a lot of these groups are more or less spinoffs that have a
Masonic/Zionist character to them.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The ADL is another whited sepulchre, full of dead men's bones.
No place for hate, my goy ass! These people are into GENOCIDE!
you mean they are like the Catholic Christian crusades, Prostestant
witch burnings, etc.?
How do you know of this? This is not a rhetorical question.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
what
are these so-called fruits to which you refer and have observed?>
?
You haven't been paying attention. I'll more post in the future.
of course I have but I haven't seen any definite proof in the examples
you have posted
Well, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.
I'll post more in the future and maybe you'll come around.
If you don't, it's OK... we'll still be friends!
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
you mean the New Testament which was culled by a group of Catholic
bishops and then culled again by the Protestants? who really knows
what Jesus taught and what the first Christians believed? does
your study include many of the books/writings/beliefs which were
part of early Christianity but which were excluded from the New
Testament...many on religious-political grounds?
WHO KNOWS IF AN *ISRAEL* EVER EXISTED?
If so, there are no accounts of this "kingdom" in Egyptian or Persian
historical texts of the time.
this is not my understanding based on quite a few History Channel
programs...
Ah, yes... the "History" Channel...
Quite a few programs, eh? Then it can't be wrong.
Well, go with that info then.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
of course, this is second hand information
Whatever.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Damn! And I thought the "red-letter" text was what he said.
Where did I get *that* crazy idea from? I can't remember...
Oh, well!
I have said that I would only take the red-letter text as what Jesus
is supposed to have taught...I have never said I believe it was what
he taught
OK. I went back and reviewed the original quote. You said that for
you, this "red-letter" text in bibles is the only true Christianity.
Your statement above is correct, yet I don't follow the logic.
If for you, the red-letter text is the only true Christianity, and if
you don't believe that it was what Jesus taught, what defines
"Christianity" for you? Furthermore, you don't even know who decided
what would be included in the red-letter text. Seems a bit
capricious, if you don't mind my saying so.
I'm sure you'll explain.
when I discuss Christianity with Christians, I ony refer to the
red-letter texts
That's very nice, but it does not answer my question.
Please reread my question and answer that.

----
If for you, the red-letter text is the only true Christianity, and if
you don't believe that it was what Jesus taught, what defines
"Christianity" for you?
----
This is what I would like you to address.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
I'm sorry! What was the question again? Oh yeah!
I was offered a smorgasbord of bibles and told to pick the "correct"
version. This was supposed to be, in your words, "a serious
question". Again, I apologize. I thought you were making a some sort
of satirical joke with your question.
Can I have the KingJames in French with lettuce, but hold the mayo?
But seriously, I normally use the King James version because I
downloaded a free pdf copy of that years ago. Also, if I use any
other version Yahweh will smite me! So, I guess that's *my* "correct"
version. Your mileage may vary.
you have used it to "prove" some of your arguments...what makes the KJ
version valid?
You don't seem to understand.

I make NO claims as to the "validity" of the KJ version (or any other
version) as a whole, or complete work.

I am taking *select* passages from that particular bible and showing how,
IMO, they may apply to the article I post.

I feel that I am free to take *select* passages from _any_ of those bibles
you mention above or others, if I feel the passages apply and provided
they contain what I would call "wise(sage)/timeless" advice/info.

I just happen to have a KJ bible here in pdf format. I use that.

Now, granted, I fully understand this is just my opinion at that
particular moment in time, and you are free to
agree/disagree/applaud/puke/ignore.

To restate (hopefully for the last time!!!), I never said I was using the
KJ Bible to "prove" anything. I use select passages from the bible I have
to support, or buttress my argument or the article I've posted.


I hope this explanation was clear enough.
I've added some redundancy in the hopes it'll sink in this time.

<snip />
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
all you seem to do is quote and reference (frequently old) works by
others and IMHO "That is an incredibly STUPID position to take, but
it's your right."
Apparently, If I say something you say it's just my claim. I then
SHOW you why I say it, and then you complain that I reference works
of others. You seem to have some blockage here. I'll try to help you.
wrong...I have said that what you claim to be true is often based upon
the works of others and I frequently disagree or question the truth of
your sources...
Yes, I've got to sign up for Zio-cable so I can get the History Channel.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
the truth of your sources, not the truth of whether or
not they have said what they said
OK. Gotcha.

<snip />
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
"Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of
commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something.
They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so
watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had
better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation
of it."
--Woodrow Wilson
could be the extremely wealthy and those who continually try to make
them wealthier...sound like anyone you know in current politics?
Dennis, you never answered this question:
------------
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
absolutely not, quit the organization and stop supporting them BUT do
not break your sacred oath regarding "secrets"
What if you discovered millions would die?
You'd feel no compunction whatsoever to divulge the "secrets"?
good question, I do not know BUT are we talking about such a secret
society?
---------------
JFK said it was a clear and present danger:
He described it as a "deadly challenge".
A war that "may never be declared in a traditional fashion".
"No borders have been crossed by marching troops."
"No war ever posed a greater threat to our security."
A group that relies on infiltration, subversion and intimidation.
--------------

If you were a member of a secret society, and had taken vows of silence,
but discovered you were part of a plan to subvert the freedoms of the
nation you lived in by unconstitutional means, WOULD YOU EXPOSE THEM, OR
NOT? Would you, dmreed, break your "sacred" vow of silence?




Ø
"We will have a world government whether you like it or not. The only
question is whether that government will be achieved by conquest or
consent"
--Paul Warburg (February 17, 1950; testimony before the US Senate Foreign
Relations Committee)
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-15 18:55:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
so what is wrong with teaching by symbolism?
There is nothing "wrong" with teaching by using symbolism, Like
anything else, it can be abused. That's why the cryps and bloods
(hope I got the names right) kill each other. One wears blue the
other red. Symbolism. STUPID.
One group has different "hand signals" from the other.
Symbolism. STUPID.
agreed but what does that have to do with masonic symbolism?
I don't know of the esoteric/occult use of Masonic symbolism, but the
statement I made is quite general and applies to _all_ forms of symbolism.
one of your most idiotic statements...you don't know about esoteric
symbolism and then claim to make a general statement about the use of
symbolism????
Post by Ø
Just looking at some of the Masonic emblems, I see they have a certain
fondness for the skull&bones symbol. I don't think it takes much
imagination to see how that might be abused.
I would have to look again but I don't recall the use of the skull and bones
in Masonic symbolism...it definitely is not prevalent.
Post by Ø
Some of their symbolism can clearly be used to further a Zionist agenda.
examples?
Post by Ø
Of course, even words and pictograms are ultimately symbolic.
obviously...so?
Post by Ø
A quick example: when some people use the term "humanity", most people
assume it includes them.
But is this a valid assumption?
In some cases, it's not.
ok...so?
Post by Ø
The high-level initiate and the profane can perceive the same symbols, but
interpret them in radically different ways.
certainly...that is part of the use of symbols...not everyone is ready to
understand or use some of the hidden truths according to esoteric philosophy
Post by Ø
I have asked you the following before.
Below are your words. I have included the ref# so you can review the
context.
How do you,dmreed, know the following?
-------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.afro-latin
Subject: Re: [ot] New Right De-Emphasizes Hate Bill, by Ted Pike
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 13:53:39 -0700
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:01:24 MST
much like the "Christian" KKK members and all those who either supported
them or turned a blind eye...much like "Christian" ministries which preach
one thing a doe another including amassing great wealth instead of giving up
everything to the poor and needy!
as for facts, some famous "Christian" evangelists have proved to be
hypocrites especially regarding sexual matters...and most of them are rich
compared to their followers who are on the poor side! But notice I said
"some" which does not imply ALL evangelists!
-----------
How do you know this?
This is not a rhetorical question.
do you read/watch the news?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
I don't know about JWs but true for Mormons except that my
understanding is that the founder quit Masonry before starting the
Mormons...apparently he borrowed some of the rituals
There seems to be some plausible deniability in Russell's case.
If he wasn't a Mason, he sure tried to "talk the talk" in this discourse.
http://edwinr.chaosnet.org/1169453467/mason1.pdf
I really do not understand what he is trying to say...he seems to go around
in circles???
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
but what about my observation regarding B'nai B'rith and its
association with Masonry?
http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/marin_bnai_brith.htm
fascinating history...nowhere does it say BB is Masonic...only that several
founding members were Masons
Post by Ø
http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/fraternalism/jewish_orders.htm
it simply states that "The order originally conducted its meetings in the
German language, and its founders drew heavily from the Masonic Fraternity
and the Odd Fellows in its ritual and lodge meeting system."...which does
not make it Masonic!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
BTW just because someone is a Mason and belongs to or even starts
another group does not make that other group a Masonic group!
OK.
But a lot of these groups are more or less spinoffs that have a
Masonic/Zionist character to them.
so what?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The ADL is another whited sepulchre, full of dead men's bones.
No place for hate, my goy ass! These people are into GENOCIDE!
you mean they are like the Catholic Christian crusades, Prostestant
witch burnings, etc.?
How do you know of this? This is not a rhetorical question.
the same way you apparently "know" about what you have been
stating...news/history/etc...obviously not by first-hand experience
Post by Ø
Ah, yes... the "History" Channel...
Quite a few programs, eh? Then it can't be wrong.
Well, go with that info then.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
of course, this is second hand information
of course it is
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Damn! And I thought the "red-letter" text was what he said.
Where did I get *that* crazy idea from? I can't remember...
Oh, well!
I have said that I would only take the red-letter text as what Jesus
is supposed to have taught...I have never said I believe it was what
he taught
OK. I went back and reviewed the original quote. You said that for
you, this "red-letter" text in bibles is the only true Christianity.
Your statement above is correct, yet I don't follow the logic.
If for you, the red-letter text is the only true Christianity, and if
you don't believe that it was what Jesus taught, what defines
"Christianity" for you? Furthermore, you don't even know who decided
what would be included in the red-letter text. Seems a bit
capricious, if you don't mind my saying so.
I'm sure you'll explain.
when I discuss Christianity with Christians, I ony refer to the
red-letter texts
That's very nice, but it does not answer my question.
Please reread my question and answer that.
----
If for you, the red-letter text is the only true Christianity, and if
you don't believe that it was what Jesus taught, what defines
"Christianity" for you?
----
This is what I would like you to address.
it should be obvious...if I don't believe in something, that does not mean
that I believe it is false...it can simply mean I don't know for sure so I
don't believe!

as I said before, when I discuss Christianity with Christians, I only refer
to the red-letter texts
Post by Ø
I make NO claims as to the "validity" of the KJ version (or any other
version) as a whole, or complete work.
I am taking *select* passages from that particular bible and showing how,
IMO, they may apply to the article I post.
if you make no claims of validity, why would you make use of such a text?
Post by Ø
To restate (hopefully for the last time!!!), I never said I was using the
KJ Bible to "prove" anything. I use select passages from the bible I have
to support, or buttress my argument or the article I've posted.
again, why quote something as "support" for an argument if you do not even
think is is valid?
Post by Ø
------------
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
absolutely not, quit the organization and stop supporting them BUT do
not break your sacred oath regarding "secrets"
What if you discovered millions would die?
You'd feel no compunction whatsoever to divulge the "secrets"?
good question, I do not know BUT are we talking about such a secret society?
of course, I did, I definitely said, I did not know but upon further
reflection...see below...it is obvious that you do not understand the nature
of the sacred Masonic oaths...other groups and oaths? I don't know about
them
Post by Ø
---------------
If you were a member of a secret society, and had taken vows of silence,
but discovered you were part of a plan to subvert the freedoms of the
nation you lived in by unconstitutional means, WOULD YOU EXPOSE THEM, OR
NOT? Would you, dmreed, break your "sacred" vow of silence?
if you are talking about Masonry, then, yes, exposing the plan would not
necessarily mean revealing the secret passwords and rituals to which the
sacred oaths apply

BTW your question would definitely apply to much of current politicians who
swear to up the Constitution of the US!
Ø
2007-10-15 23:45:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
so what is wrong with teaching by symbolism?
There is nothing "wrong" with teaching by using symbolism, Like
anything else, it can be abused. That's why the cryps and bloods
(hope I got the names right) kill each other. One wears blue the
other red. Symbolism. STUPID.
One group has different "hand signals" from the other.
Symbolism. STUPID.
agreed but what does that have to do with masonic symbolism?
I don't know of the esoteric/occult use of Masonic symbolism, but the
statement I made is quite general and applies to _all_ forms of symbolism.
one of your most idiotic statements...you don't know about esoteric
symbolism and then claim to make a general statement about the use of
symbolism????
Mr Reed, you are just being stubborn.
It applies to exoteric/esoteric symbolism.

I'd like to clear something up right now. I did not say what you claimed I
said.
This really doesn't matter as to the overall truth of my statement, but it
needs to be done.
I said I don't know of the *use* of Masonic esoteric/occult symbolism.

Now that this has been cleared up (and not that it matters at all), I'd
like again to offer an example. I can't believe I have to do this, but it
has to be done when people are just being plain stubborn.

#######################################################################
My general statement was: There is nothing "wrong" with teaching by using
symbolism. However, it can be abused. This applies to ALL symbolism.
########################################################################


Example: There is nothing "wrong" with using knives, but knives can be
abused. This is a general statement, and applies to ALL knives.


I don't know how *you*, specifically, use your knives. But I know
that you *can* abuse them, (eg by stabbing to death Christians who came to
your home expecting to learn about the red-letter text).
Not that you'd do that!

I know that you, or anyone else, can use knives to chop lettuce and slice
the turkey for dinner.

I also know, that you, or anyone else, can use it to slice the neighbor's
cat in pieces, or for ritual human sacrifice.

I don't have to know how, exactly someone is using his knife, because my
statement is that they can be abused or not abused. It's a general
statement. It applies to ALL knives.
(Sharp/useful ones, anyway! Else they would be thrown away!)

I can't believe I have to go through this stuff with you. You're like a
kindergarten child sometimes.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Just looking at some of the Masonic emblems, I see they have a
certain fondness for the skull&bones symbol. I don't think it takes
much imagination to see how that might be abused.
I would have to look again but I don't recall the use of the skull and
bones in Masonic symbolism...it definitely is not prevalent.
Post by Ø
Some of their symbolism can clearly be used to further a Zionist agenda.
examples?
http://edwinr.chaosnet.org/1169453467/Z.zip (~6.4MB)
Taken from The Lightbringers - The Emissaries of Jahbulon,Juri Lina

ANYTIME I see "Christians" going to go and "conquer" the "holy land", I
see the paw of the secret society.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Of course, even words and pictograms are ultimately symbolic.
obviously...so?
Post by Ø
A quick example: when some people use the term "humanity", most
people assume it includes them.
But is this a valid assumption?
In some cases, it's not.
ok...so?
Post by Ø
The high-level initiate and the profane can perceive the same
symbols, but interpret them in radically different ways.
certainly...that is part of the use of symbols...not everyone is ready
to understand or use some of the hidden truths according to esoteric
philosophy
Is this an implicit agreement on your part that symbols can be abused?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
I have asked you the following before.
Below are your words. I have included the ref# so you can review the
context.
How do you,dmreed, know the following?
-------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.afro-latin
Subject: Re: [ot] New Right De-Emphasizes Hate Bill, by Ted Pike
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 13:53:39 -0700
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:01:24 MST
much like the "Christian" KKK members and all those who either
supported them or turned a blind eye...much like "Christian"
ministries which preach one thing a doe another including amassing
great wealth instead of giving up
everything to the poor and needy!
as for facts, some famous "Christian" evangelists have proved to be
hypocrites especially regarding sexual matters...and most of them are
rich compared to their followers who are on the poor side! But notice
I said "some" which does not imply ALL evangelists!
-----------
How do you know this?
This is not a rhetorical question.
do you read/watch the news?
I used to. Until I woke up.

So... You "know" of "Christian" hypocrites because you read/watch the
"news"? I take it, then, that you are an informed individual.
Has reading/watching the news informed you of Jewish hypocrites,
especially regarding sexual matters?

Has watching the History Channel informed you that "World Jewry" waged war
on Germany?
Can you name one program on the History Channel that told you that?
They screwed Germany twice.

It's time for Germans to stand up and fight for their dignity.
Did the History Channel tell you about Donmeh Jews and their role in the
Armenian Genocide?
Time for Armenians to wake up!
Turks! Your country is controlled by Rothschild financed Judeo-Masonry.
Ukrainians! Stand up! A crime against humanity was carried out against the
people in your area, many of them your relatives!

Shine the light on this blood-sucking vampire. It hates exposure to the
light! Yugoslavia was attacked and broken up to get it into the intl
Judeo-Masonic banking system, which it was not a part of at the time.
Where is your voice? Palestinians! Iraqis! The people living in the
beautiful Patagonia lands! They've been "casing" you out for some time.
Don't let them steal your land. Don't let them steal your resources.

Any Jews who want to live in peace with Gentiles, speak out!
Don't be part of a criminal network.
The vast majority of Gentiles have nothing against you.

I want American Jews to seriously think about this: If Israel expands into
"Greater" Israel, the chance is high that there will be pogroms,
especially in the US. Why have an empty "Greater" Israel? These pogroms
will be instigated by your own "leaders". Why don't you wake up? How many
times must we repeat this tragic nightmare? Do you want to continually be
herded around like cattle, while your "leaders" rake in the profits?


It's "your leaders" who herd you and "our leaders" who herd us, and when
the time is proper, pit us against each other. Let's not play that deadly
game.

Let us be wise as serpents and as harmless as doves.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
I don't know about JWs but true for Mormons except that my
understanding is that the founder quit Masonry before starting the
Mormons...apparently he borrowed some of the rituals
There seems to be some plausible deniability in Russell's case.
If he wasn't a Mason, he sure tried to "talk the talk" in this
discourse. http://edwinr.chaosnet.org/1169453467/mason1.pdf
I really do not understand what he is trying to say...he seems to go
around in circles???
Pretty masonic discourse, isn't it?
Maybe like the ladder that leads nowhere?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
but what about my observation regarding B'nai B'rith and its
association with Masonry?
http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/marin_bnai_brith.htm
fascinating history...nowhere does it say BB is Masonic...only that
several founding members were Masons
<begin_quote>
-----------
http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/marin-fraternities-01.htm#The%20Fraternity%20of%20Freemasonry
Though acknowledged as the largest and oldest fraternity in the world,
Freemasonry is not easily categorized.
---------
<end_quote>
[Not easily categorized, eh? Convenient, isn't it?]

http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/marin-fraternities.htm
Section: Specific, Non-Masonic Fraternal Groups in Marin
Note that:
B'nai B'rith is NOT listed as NON-MASONIC.

B'nai B'rith IS listed under: Ethnic Fraternal Organizations


Now, if it's fraternal, AND *NOT* NON-MASONIC, what the hell is it?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/fraternalism/jewish_orders
.htm
it simply states that "The order originally conducted its meetings in
the German language, and its founders drew heavily from the Masonic
Fraternity and the Odd Fellows in its ritual and lodge meeting
system."...which does not make it Masonic!
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
BTW just because someone is a Mason and belongs to or even starts
another group does not make that other group a Masonic group!
OK.
But a lot of these groups are more or less spinoffs that have a
Masonic/Zionist character to them.
so what?
It makes them part of the matrix. The interlocked, pervasive network the
idiot "President" Wilson talked about. The pervasive networked that killed
JFK, just after he spoke out against them and was taking actions to stop
them.
I should add "criminal" to the idiot Wilson's words.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The ADL is another whited sepulchre, full of dead men's bones.
No place for hate, my goy ass! These people are into GENOCIDE!
you mean they are like the Catholic Christian crusades,
Prostestant witch burnings, etc.?
How do you know of this? This is not a rhetorical question.
the same way you apparently "know" about what you have been
stating...news/history/etc...obviously not by first-hand experience
Post by Ø
Ah, yes... the "History" Channel...
Quite a few programs, eh? Then it can't be wrong.
Well, go with that info then.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
of course, this is second hand information
of course it is
I think you're responding to yourself here.
This thread is long and maybe the way I snipped parts of it confused you.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Damn! And I thought the "red-letter" text was what he said.
Where did I get *that* crazy idea from? I can't remember...
Oh, well!
I have said that I would only take the red-letter text as what
Jesus is supposed to have taught...I have never said I believe it
was what he taught
OK. I went back and reviewed the original quote. You said that for
you, this "red-letter" text in bibles is the only true
Christianity. Your statement above is correct, yet I don't follow
the logic.
If for you, the red-letter text is the only true Christianity, and
if you don't believe that it was what Jesus taught, what defines
"Christianity" for you? Furthermore, you don't even know who
decided what would be included in the red-letter text. Seems a bit
capricious, if you don't mind my saying so.
I'm sure you'll explain.
when I discuss Christianity with Christians, I ony refer to the
red-letter texts
That's very nice, but it does not answer my question.
Please reread my question and answer that.
----
If for you, the red-letter text is the only true Christianity, and if
you don't believe that it was what Jesus taught, what defines
"Christianity" for you?
----
This is what I would like you to address.
it should be obvious...if I don't believe in something, that does not
mean that I believe it is false...
OK. I follow... I think.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
it can simply mean I don't know for
sure so I don't believe!
So, we're dealing some type of "fuzzy" logic?
We're dealing with blacks, whites and a multitude of grays?

So, if it's a "gray", then you don't accept it as "truth" (because there is
some doubt), BUT you accept this as the "true" Christianity?

Are you saying this is the best approximation we have to Christianity,
therefore you accept it as the "true" Christianity?
Even though you don't necessarily believe it?

I'm *not* trying to give you a hard time here.
I find this interesting.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
as I said before, when I discuss Christianity with Christians, I only
refer to the red-letter texts
I'll look into these.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
I make NO claims as to the "validity" of the KJ version (or any other
version) as a whole, or complete work.
I am taking *select* passages from that particular bible and showing
how, IMO, they may apply to the article I post.
if you make no claims of validity, why would you make use of such a text?
Post by Ø
To restate (hopefully for the last time!!!), I never said I was using
the KJ Bible to "prove" anything. I use select passages from the
bible I have to support, or buttress my argument or the article I've
posted.
again, why quote something as "support" for an argument if you do not
even think is is valid?
I quote the *select* passages because I think they apply.
The *select* passages are indeed valid, IMO.
Not the whole "Bible".

Think of it as a line-item-veto.
Think of it a slicing the fat from the steak, only this particular steak
has a lot more fat than meat.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
------------
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
absolutely not, quit the organization and stop supporting them BUT
do not break your sacred oath regarding "secrets"
What if you discovered millions would die?
You'd feel no compunction whatsoever to divulge the "secrets"?
good question, I do not know BUT are we talking about such a secret society?
of course, I did, I definitely said, I did not know but upon further
reflection...see below...it is obvious that you do not understand the
nature of the sacred Masonic oaths...other groups and oaths? I don't
know about them
Post by Ø
---------------
If you were a member of a secret society, and had taken vows of
silence, but discovered you were part of a plan to subvert the
freedoms of the nation you lived in by unconstitutional means, WOULD
YOU EXPOSE THEM, OR NOT? Would you, dmreed, break your "sacred" vow
of silence?
if you are talking about Masonry, then, yes, exposing the plan would
not necessarily mean revealing the secret passwords and rituals to
which the sacred oaths apply
BTW your question would definitely apply to much of current
politicians who swear to up the Constitution of the US!
Agreed.
But this is not done in secrecy. Who knows? Maybe the prez swears that any
vows he's made are null and void?
Like the Kol Nidre?

Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-16 00:50:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
so what is wrong with teaching by symbolism?
There is nothing "wrong" with teaching by using symbolism, Like
anything else, it can be abused. That's why the cryps and bloods
(hope I got the names right) kill each other. One wears blue the
other red. Symbolism. STUPID.
One group has different "hand signals" from the other.
Symbolism. STUPID.
agreed but what does that have to do with masonic symbolism?
I don't know of the esoteric/occult use of Masonic symbolism, but the
statement I made is quite general and applies to _all_ forms of symbolism.
one of your most idiotic statements...you don't know about esoteric
symbolism and then claim to make a general statement about the use of
symbolism????
Mr Reed, you are just being stubborn.
It applies to exoteric/esoteric symbolism.
huh? if you don't know about esoteric symbolism, how can you say "It applies to exoteric/esoteric symbolism."?
Post by Ø
I'd like to clear something up right now. I did not say what you claimed I
said.
This really doesn't matter as to the overall truth of my statement, but it
needs to be done.
I said I don't know of the *use* of Masonic esoteric/occult symbolism.
huh? if you don't know about esoteric symbolism, how can you say "It applies to exoteric/esoteric symbolism."?
Post by Ø
Now that this has been cleared up (and not that it matters at all), I'd
like again to offer an example. I can't believe I have to do this, but it
has to be done when people are just being plain stubborn.
#######################################################################
My general statement was: There is nothing "wrong" with teaching by using
symbolism. However, it can be abused. This applies to ALL symbolism.
########################################################################
I thought I had agreed with that statement
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Just looking at some of the Masonic emblems, I see they have a
certain fondness for the skull&bones symbol. I don't think it takes
much imagination to see how that might be abused.
I would have to look again but I don't recall the use of the skull and
bones in Masonic symbolism...it definitely is not prevalent.
Post by Ø
Some of their symbolism can clearly be used to further a Zionist agenda.
examples?
http://edwinr.chaosnet.org/1169453467/Z.zip (~6.4MB)
Taken from The Lightbringers - The Emissaries of Jahbulon,Juri Lina
I looked at all the pictures...which symbols further a Zionist agenda? BTW I did not see a single skull and bones symbol???
Post by Ø
ANYTIME I see "Christians" going to go and "conquer" the "holy land", I
see the paw of the secret society.
you mean like the Catholic Church?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The high-level initiate and the profane can perceive the same
symbols, but interpret them in radically different ways.
certainly...that is part of the use of symbols...not everyone is ready
to understand or use some of the hidden truths according to esoteric
philosophy
Is this an implicit agreement on your part that symbols can be abused?
not at all but I did agree that symbols can be abused>>>
Post by Ø
I used to. Until I woke up.
So... You "know" of "Christian" hypocrites because you read/watch the
"news"? I take it, then, that you are an informed individual.
Has reading/watching the news informed you of Jewish hypocrites,
especially regarding sexual matters?
no
Post by Ø
Has watching the History Channel informed you that "World Jewry" waged war
on Germany?
no
Post by Ø
Can you name one program on the History Channel that told you that?
They screwed Germany twice.
no
Post by Ø
It's time for Germans to stand up and fight for their dignity.
they have no need today
Post by Ø
Did the History Channel tell you about Donmeh Jews and their role in the
Armenian Genocide?
Time for Armenians to wake up!
Turks! Your country is controlled by Rothschild financed Judeo-Masonry.
Ukrainians! Stand up! A crime against humanity was carried out against the
people in your area, many of them your relatives!
you mean the Ottoman Turks are blameless?
Post by Ø
Shine the light on this blood-sucking vampire. It hates exposure to the
light! Yugoslavia was attacked and broken up to get it into the intl
Judeo-Masonic banking system, which it was not a part of at the time.
Where is your voice? Palestinians! Iraqis! The people living in the
beautiful Patagonia lands! They've been "casing" you out for some time.
Don't let them steal your land. Don't let them steal your resources.
Any Jews who want to live in peace with Gentiles, speak out!
Don't be part of a criminal network.
The vast majority of Gentiles have nothing against you.
I want American Jews to seriously think about this: If Israel expands into
"Greater" Israel, the chance is high that there will be pogroms,
especially in the US. Why have an empty "Greater" Israel? These pogroms
will be instigated by your own "leaders". Why don't you wake up? How many
times must we repeat this tragic nightmare? Do you want to continually be
herded around like cattle, while your "leaders" rake in the profits?
It's "your leaders" who herd you and "our leaders" who herd us, and when
the time is proper, pit us against each other. Let's not play that deadly
game.
Let us be wise as serpents and as harmless as doves.
the last sentence is the only thing you say that makes any sense to me except that politics and business always attempt to control resources
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
I don't know about JWs but true for Mormons except that my
understanding is that the founder quit Masonry before starting the
Mormons...apparently he borrowed some of the rituals
There seems to be some plausible deniability in Russell's case.
If he wasn't a Mason, he sure tried to "talk the talk" in this
discourse. http://edwinr.chaosnet.org/1169453467/mason1.pdf
I really do not understand what he is trying to say...he seems to go
around in circles???
Pretty masonic discourse, isn't it?
Maybe like the ladder that leads nowhere?
definitely seems to lead to nowhere
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
but what about my observation regarding B'nai B'rith and its
association with Masonry?
http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/marin_bnai_brith.htm
fascinating history...nowhere does it say BB is Masonic...only that
several founding members were Masons
<begin_quote>
-----------
http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/marin-fraternities-01.htm#The%20Fraternity%20of%20Freemasonry
Though acknowledged as the largest and oldest fraternity in the world,
Freemasonry is not easily categorized.
---------
<end_quote>
legend/myth....there were many non-Masonic secret societies/religions with initiates in ancient times
Post by Ø
[Not easily categorized, eh? Convenient, isn't it?]
not particularily
Post by Ø
http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/marin-fraternities.htm
Though acknowledged as the largest and oldest fraternity in the world, Freemasonry is not easily categorized. Like many of its imitators, it is often described as a secret society because its meetings are closed to the uninitiated and utilizes passwords and grips. Unlike so many of its imitators, such as those described below, Freemasonry is not a benefit society. Although it recognizes no class distinctions and accepts all men of good morals who have a belief in a Supreme Being, Freemasonry's membership has traditionally been drawn from among the intellectual and social elite in society from the first recorded acceptance of a speculative Masons - Robert Moray in 1641 and Elias Ashmole in 1646. The ritual and ceremonies of Freemasonry encourages the process of spiritual development in the initiate. Individual freethinking was and is the hallmark of Freemasonry.

quoted from you posted link...except for the "oldest" reference which is pure myth...note its purpose (in italics)
Post by Ø
Section: Specific, Non-Masonic Fraternal Groups in Marin
B'nai B'rith is NOT listed as NON-MASONIC.
B'nai B'rith IS listed under: Ethnic Fraternal Organizations
Now, if it's fraternal, AND *NOT* NON-MASONIC, what the hell is it?
Masonic imitator?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
BTW just because someone is a Mason and belongs to or even starts
another group does not make that other group a Masonic group!
OK.
But a lot of these groups are more or less spinoffs that have a
Masonic/Zionist character to them.
so what?
It makes them part of the matrix. The interlocked, pervasive network the
idiot "President" Wilson talked about. The pervasive networked that killed
JFK, just after he spoke out against them and was taking actions to stop
them.
what matrix? the matrix of humankind?
Post by Ø
I should add "criminal" to the idiot Wilson's words.
So, we're dealing some type of "fuzzy" logic?
We're dealing with blacks, whites and a multitude of grays?
So, if it's a "gray", then you don't accept it as "truth" (because there is
some doubt), BUT you accept this as the "true" Christianity?
Are you saying this is the best approximation we have to Christianity,
therefore you accept it as the "true" Christianity?
Even though you don't necessarily believe it?
I'm *not* trying to give you a hard time here.
I find this interesting.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
as I said before, when I discuss Christianity with Christians, I only
refer to the red-letter texts
I stand by this statement....it has nothing to do with my beliefs
Post by Ø
I'll look into these.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
again, why quote something as "support" for an argument if you do not
even think is is valid?
I quote the *select* passages because I think they apply.
The *select* passages are indeed valid, IMO.
Not the whole "Bible".
Think of it as a line-item-veto.
Think of it a slicing the fat from the steak, only this particular steak
has a lot more fat than meat.
convienient, much like some famous fundmentalist Christian preachers
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
BTW your question would definitely apply to much of current
politicians who swear to up the Constitution of the US!
Agreed.
But this is not done in secrecy. Who knows? Maybe the prez swears that any
vows he's made are null and void?
Like the Kol Nidre?
even worse...their oaths are taken in public and then they ignore the Constitution!
Ø
2007-10-16 20:00:25 UTC
Permalink
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Just looking at some of the Masonic emblems, I see they have a
certain fondness for the skull&bones symbol. I don't think it takes
much imagination to see how that might be abused.
I would have to look again but I don't recall the use of the skull
and
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
bones in Masonic symbolism...it definitely is not prevalent.
Post by Ø
Some of their symbolism can clearly be used to further a Zionist agenda.
examples?
http://edwinr.chaosnet.org/1169453467/Z.zip (~6.4MB)
Taken from The Lightbringers - The Emissaries of Jahbulon,Juri Lina
I looked at all the pictures...which symbols further a Zionist agenda?
BTW I did not see a single skull and bones symbol???
You asked for examples of symbols that could be used to further a Zionist
agenda, didn't you?

Menorah?
Stars of "David" all over the place?
What's on the flag of Israel?
Post by Ø
ANYTIME I see "Christians" going to go and "conquer" the "holy land",
I
Post by Ø
see the paw of the secret society.
you mean like the Catholic Church?
Yes.
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The high-level initiate and the profane can perceive the same
symbols, but interpret them in radically different ways.
certainly...that is part of the use of symbols...not everyone is
ready
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
to understand or use some of the hidden truths according to esoteric
philosophy
Is this an implicit agreement on your part that symbols can be abused?
not at all but I did agree that symbols can be abused>>>
Yes, you did.

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to reinsert something you edited out
from your post. It's going to be a little sloppy, but it needs to be done.

----------------------------
Post by Ø
How do you,dmreed, know the following?
-------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.afro-latin
Subject: Re: [ot] New Right De-Emphasizes Hate Bill, by Ted Pike
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 13:53:39 -0700
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:01:24 MST
much like the "Christian" KKK members and all those who either
supported them or turned a blind eye...much like "Christian"
ministries which preach one thing a doe another including amassing
great wealth instead of giving up
everything to the poor and needy!
as for facts, some famous "Christian" evangelists have proved to be
hypocrites especially regarding sexual matters...and most of them are
rich compared to their followers who are on the poor side! But notice
I said "some" which does not imply ALL evangelists!
-----------
How do you know this?
This is not a rhetorical question.
do you read/watch the news?
--------------------------

So you "know" about "Christian" KKK members because your read/watch the
news?
You also "know" about "all" (note the universal quantifier) those who
either supported them or turned a blind eye from because you read/watch
the news?

You "know" about the "Christian" ministries amassing great wealth instead
of giving up everything to the poor and needy by reading/watching the
news?

I take it you also "know" from reading/watching the news that "Christian"
evangelists have "proved" to be hypocrites especially regarding sexual
matters?

And again, you feel the need to reiterate as a "fact", that "most" of them
("Christian" evangelists, I take it), are rich compared to their
followers, who are on the "poor side".
This, again, presumably from reading/watching the news, since that was
your reply to my question.

---------------------------------
do you read/watch the news?
Post by Ø
I used to. Until I woke up.
So... You "know" of "Christian" hypocrites because you read/watch the
"news"? I take it, then, that you are an informed individual.
Has reading/watching the news informed you of Jewish hypocrites,
especially regarding sexual matters?
no
NO????? Really??
Do you think it's because there are no Jewish hypocrites, especially
regarding sexual matters?
I expect an answer.
Post by Ø
Has watching the History Channel informed you that "World Jewry"
waged
war
Post by Ø
on Germany?
no
NO??? Really??
"World Jewry" *DID* declare war on Germany just prior to WWII, didn't it?
I expect an answer.
Post by Ø
Can you name one program on the History Channel that told you that?
They screwed Germany twice.
no
No? What do you mean?
I expect an answer.
Post by Ø
It's time for Germans to stand up and fight for their dignity.
they have no need today
Well, that's your opinion, and I disagree.
Germany has to have a FAIR legal/judicial system.
No KANGAROO COURTS!
Germany has to have FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,510846,00.html

This has been TAKEN from the German people and THERE'S NO DIGNITY WITHOUT
THEM! There's only the illusion of dignity, if you agree to toe the line.
Post by Ø
Did the History Channel tell you about Donmeh Jews and their role in
the
Post by Ø
Armenian Genocide?
<snip />
you mean the Ottoman Turks are blameless?
How do you even think of that from my statement?
I'll get back to your question, but let me first note that
YOU *EVADED* MY QUESTION.

My question, dmreed, was:
Did the History Channel tell you about Donmeh Jews and their role in
the Armenian Genocide?
I expect an answer, dmreed.

To answer your question, no, the Ottoman Turks are not blameless.

I expect an answer to my question.
Post by Ø
Shine the light on this blood-sucking vampire. It hates exposure to
the
Post by Ø
light! Yugoslavia was attacked and broken up to get it into the intl
Judeo-Masonic banking system, which it was not a part of at the time.
Where is your voice? Palestinians! Iraqis! The people living in the
beautiful Patagonia lands! They've been "casing" you out for some
time.
Post by Ø
Don't let them steal your land. Don't let them steal your resources.
Any Jews who want to live in peace with Gentiles, speak out!
Don't be part of a criminal network.
The vast majority of Gentiles have nothing against you.
I want American Jews to seriously think about this: If Israel expands
into
Post by Ø
"Greater" Israel, the chance is high that there will be pogroms,
especially in the US. Why have an empty "Greater" Israel? These
pogroms
Post by Ø
will be instigated by your own "leaders". Why don't you wake up? How
many
Post by Ø
times must we repeat this tragic nightmare? Do you want to
continually
be
Post by Ø
herded around like cattle, while your "leaders" rake in the profits?
It's "your leaders" who herd you and "our leaders" who herd us, and
when
Post by Ø
the time is proper, pit us against each other. Let's not play that
deadly
Post by Ø
game.
Let us be wise as serpents and as harmless as doves.
the last sentence is the only thing you say that makes any sense to me
except that politics and business always attempt to control resources
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
I don't know about JWs but true for Mormons except that my
understanding is that the founder quit Masonry before starting the
Mormons...apparently he borrowed some of the rituals
There seems to be some plausible deniability in Russell's case.
If he wasn't a Mason, he sure tried to "talk the talk" in this
discourse. http://edwinr.chaosnet.org/1169453467/mason1.pdf
I really do not understand what he is trying to say...he seems to go
around in circles???
Pretty masonic discourse, isn't it?
Maybe like the ladder that leads nowhere?
definitely seems to lead to nowhere
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
but what about my observation regarding B'nai B'rith and its
association with Masonry?
http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/marin_bnai_brith.htm
fascinating history...nowhere does it say BB is Masonic...only that
several founding members were Masons
<begin_quote>
-----------
http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/marin-fraternities-01.htm#The%20Frat
ernity%20of%20Freemasonry
Post by Ø
Though acknowledged as the largest and oldest fraternity in the
world, Freemasonry is not easily categorized.
---------
<end_quote>
legend/myth....there were many non-Masonic secret societies/religions
with initiates in ancient times
I don't think that's what the claim was.
You seem to be saying they were not the ONLY blah blah.

The section you quote is not making that claim.
They claim they're acknowledged as the LARGEST and OLDEST blah blah.

Maybe they're wrong, but you seem (yet again!) to pull out your sword and
attack the wind.
Post by Ø
[Not easily categorized, eh? Convenient, isn't it?]
not particularily
Post by Ø
http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/marin-fraternities.htm
Though acknowledged as the largest and oldest fraternity in the world,
Freemasonry is not easily categorized. Like many of its imitators, it
is often described as a secret society because its meetings are closed
to the uninitiated and utilizes passwords and grips. Unlike so many of
its imitators, such as those described below, Freemasonry is not a
benefit society. Although it recognizes no class distinctions and
accepts all men of good morals who have a belief in a Supreme Being,
Freemasonry's membership has traditionally been drawn from among the
intellectual and social elite in society from the first recorded
acceptance of a speculative Masons - Robert Moray in 1641 and Elias
Ashmole in 1646. The ritual and ceremonies of Freemasonry encourages
the process of spiritual development in the initiate. Individual
freethinking was and is the hallmark of Freemasonry.
quoted from you posted link...except for the "oldest" reference which
is pure myth...note its purpose (in italics)
Post by Ø
Section: Specific, Non-Masonic Fraternal Groups in Marin
B'nai B'rith is NOT listed as NON-MASONIC.
B'nai B'rith IS listed under: Ethnic Fraternal Organizations
Now, if it's fraternal, AND *NOT* NON-MASONIC, what the hell is it?
Masonic imitator?
It's not on that list. B'nai B'rith is an INDEPENDENT ORDER, yet it's
Freemasonic. People will deny, and play all the Masonic word games, but
that's what it is.

If anything B'nai B'rith is very high-level Freemasonry. I have a source
that I have to check out, but the source says Albert Pike handed
Freemasonry over to B'nai B'rith in 1874 in a "secret treaty".
This info is still classified as tentative, yet plausible.
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
BTW just because someone is a Mason and belongs to or even starts
another group does not make that other group a Masonic group!
OK.
But a lot of these groups are more or less spinoffs that have a
Masonic/Zionist character to them.
so what?
It makes them part of the matrix. The interlocked, pervasive network
the
Post by Ø
idiot "President" Wilson talked about. The pervasive networked that
killed
Post by Ø
JFK, just after he spoke out against them and was taking actions to
stop
Post by Ø
them.
what matrix? the matrix of humankind?
The matrix is an espionage/control/deception network.
Sayanim of sorts.
Post by Ø
I should add "criminal" to the idiot Wilson's words.
So, we're dealing some type of "fuzzy" logic?
We're dealing with blacks, whites and a multitude of grays?
So, if it's a "gray", then you don't accept it as "truth" (because
there is
Post by Ø
some doubt), BUT you accept this as the "true" Christianity?
Are you saying this is the best approximation we have to
Christianity, therefore you accept it as the "true" Christianity?
Even though you don't necessarily believe it?
I'm *not* trying to give you a hard time here.
I find this interesting.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
as I said before, when I discuss Christianity with Christians, I
only refer to the red-letter texts
I stand by this statement....it has nothing to do with my beliefs
So, you EVADE THE QUESTION YET AGAIN?
Post by Ø
I'll look into these.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
again, why quote something as "support" for an argument if you do
not even think is is valid?
I quote the *select* passages because I think they apply.
The *select* passages are indeed valid, IMO.
Not the whole "Bible".
Think of it as a line-item-veto.
Think of it a slicing the fat from the steak, only this particular
steak
Post by Ø
has a lot more fat than meat.
convienient, much like some famous fundmentalist Christian preachers
They're probably Masonic.
Most certainly Judeo-Christian -- not Christian!

Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-16 20:51:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Just looking at some of the Masonic emblems, I see they have a
certain fondness for the skull&bones symbol. I don't think it takes
much imagination to see how that might be abused.
I would have to look again but I don't recall the use of the skull
and
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
bones in Masonic symbolism...it definitely is not prevalent.
Post by Ø
Some of their symbolism can clearly be used to further a Zionist agenda.
examples?
http://edwinr.chaosnet.org/1169453467/Z.zip (~6.4MB)
Taken from The Lightbringers - The Emissaries of Jahbulon,Juri Lina
I looked at all the pictures...which symbols further a Zionist agenda?
BTW I did not see a single skull and bones symbol???
You asked for examples of symbols that could be used to further a Zionist
agenda, didn't you?
Menorah?
Stars of "David" all over the place?
What's on the flag of Israel?
Jewish symbols, not necessarily Zionist
Post by Ø
Post by Ø
ANYTIME I see "Christians" going to go and "conquer" the "holy land",
I
Post by Ø
see the paw of the secret society.
you mean like the Catholic Church?
Yes.
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The high-level initiate and the profane can perceive the same
symbols, but interpret them in radically different ways.
certainly...that is part of the use of symbols...not everyone is
ready
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
to understand or use some of the hidden truths according to esoteric
philosophy
Is this an implicit agreement on your part that symbols can be abused?
not at all but I did agree that symbols can be abused>>>
Yes, you did.
I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to reinsert something you edited out
from your post. It's going to be a little sloppy, but it needs to be done.
----------------------------
Post by Ø
How do you,dmreed, know the following?
-------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.afro-latin
Subject: Re: [ot] New Right De-Emphasizes Hate Bill, by Ted Pike
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 13:53:39 -0700
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:01:24 MST
much like the "Christian" KKK members and all those who either
supported them or turned a blind eye...much like "Christian"
ministries which preach one thing a doe another including amassing
great wealth instead of giving up
everything to the poor and needy!
as for facts, some famous "Christian" evangelists have proved to be
hypocrites especially regarding sexual matters...and most of them are
rich compared to their followers who are on the poor side! But notice
I said "some" which does not imply ALL evangelists!
-----------
How do you know this?
This is not a rhetorical question.
never did I say all...every statement distinctly said or implied SOME
Post by Ø
do you read/watch the news?
--------------------------
So you "know" about "Christian" KKK members because your read/watch the
news?
You also "know" about "all" (note the universal quantifier) those who
either supported them or turned a blind eye from because you read/watch
the news?
You "know" about the "Christian" ministries amassing great wealth instead
of giving up everything to the poor and needy by reading/watching the
news?
I take it you also "know" from reading/watching the news that "Christian"
evangelists have "proved" to be hypocrites especially regarding sexual
matters?
And again, you feel the need to reiterate as a "fact", that "most" of them
("Christian" evangelists, I take it), are rich compared to their
followers, who are on the "poor side".
This, again, presumably from reading/watching the news, since that was
your reply to my question.
yes and from history books which is indeed 2nd hand info
Post by Ø
---------------------------------
do you read/watch the news?
Post by Ø
I used to. Until I woke up.
So... You "know" of "Christian" hypocrites because you read/watch the
"news"? I take it, then, that you are an informed individual.
Has reading/watching the news informed you of Jewish hypocrites,
especially regarding sexual matters?
no
NO????? Really??
Do you think it's because there are no Jewish hypocrites, especially
regarding sexual matters?
I expect an answer.
no....and I never said so!!!
Post by Ø
Post by Ø
Has watching the History Channel informed you that "World Jewry"
waged
war
Post by Ø
on Germany?
no
NO??? Really??
"World Jewry" *DID* declare war on Germany just prior to WWII, didn't it?
I expect an answer.
not that I am aware of....BTW what is this "I expect an answer" stuff? I
asked about which Bible you used and it took several request for you to
answer!!!
Post by Ø
Post by Ø
Can you name one program on the History Channel that told you that?
They screwed Germany twice.
no
No? What do you mean?
I expect an answer.
no, not that I am aware of
Post by Ø
Post by Ø
It's time for Germans to stand up and fight for their dignity.
they have no need today
Well, that's your opinion, and I disagree.
Germany has to have a FAIR legal/judicial system.
No KANGAROO COURTS!
Germany has to have FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,510846,00.html
This has been TAKEN from the German people and THERE'S NO DIGNITY WITHOUT
THEM! There's only the illusion of dignity, if you agree to toe the line.
yes, that is my current opinion and IMHO it is not for you to dictate what
the German people write into their laws
Post by Ø
Post by Ø
Did the History Channel tell you about Donmeh Jews and their role in
the
Post by Ø
Armenian Genocide?
<snip />
you mean the Ottoman Turks are blameless?
How do you even think of that from my statement?
I'll get back to your question, but let me first note that
YOU *EVADED* MY QUESTION.
Did the History Channel tell you about Donmeh Jews and their role in
the Armenian Genocide?
I expect an answer, dmreed.
no, not that I am aware of
Post by Ø
To answer your question, no, the Ottoman Turks are not blameless.
I expect an answer to my question.
Post by Ø
Shine the light on this blood-sucking vampire. It hates exposure to
the
Post by Ø
light! Yugoslavia was attacked and broken up to get it into the intl
Judeo-Masonic banking system, which it was not a part of at the time.
Where is your voice? Palestinians! Iraqis! The people living in the
beautiful Patagonia lands! They've been "casing" you out for some
time.
Post by Ø
Don't let them steal your land. Don't let them steal your resources.
Any Jews who want to live in peace with Gentiles, speak out!
Don't be part of a criminal network.
The vast majority of Gentiles have nothing against you.
I want American Jews to seriously think about this: If Israel expands
into
Post by Ø
"Greater" Israel, the chance is high that there will be pogroms,
especially in the US. Why have an empty "Greater" Israel? These
pogroms
Post by Ø
will be instigated by your own "leaders". Why don't you wake up? How
many
Post by Ø
times must we repeat this tragic nightmare? Do you want to
continually
be
Post by Ø
herded around like cattle, while your "leaders" rake in the profits?
It's "your leaders" who herd you and "our leaders" who herd us, and
when
Post by Ø
the time is proper, pit us against each other. Let's not play that
deadly
Post by Ø
game.
Let us be wise as serpents and as harmless as doves.
the last sentence is the only thing you say that makes any sense to me
except that politics and business always attempt to control resources
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
I don't know about JWs but true for Mormons except that my
understanding is that the founder quit Masonry before starting the
Mormons...apparently he borrowed some of the rituals
There seems to be some plausible deniability in Russell's case.
If he wasn't a Mason, he sure tried to "talk the talk" in this
discourse. http://edwinr.chaosnet.org/1169453467/mason1.pdf
I really do not understand what he is trying to say...he seems to go
around in circles???
Pretty masonic discourse, isn't it?
Maybe like the ladder that leads nowhere?
definitely seems to lead to nowhere
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
but what about my observation regarding B'nai B'rith and its
association with Masonry?
http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/marin_bnai_brith.htm
fascinating history...nowhere does it say BB is Masonic...only that
several founding members were Masons
<begin_quote>
-----------
http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/marin-fraternities-01.htm#The%20Frat
ernity%20of%20Freemasonry
Post by Ø
Though acknowledged as the largest and oldest fraternity in the
world, Freemasonry is not easily categorized.
---------
<end_quote>
legend/myth....there were many non-Masonic secret societies/religions
with initiates in ancient times
I don't think that's what the claim was.
You seem to be saying they were not the ONLY blah blah.
it said oldest and largest...it definitely was/is not the oldest but it may
be the largest in todays world with virtually instant travel and
communication
Post by Ø
The section you quote is not making that claim.
They claim they're acknowledged as the LARGEST and OLDEST blah blah.
Maybe they're wrong, but you seem (yet again!) to pull out your sword and
attack the wind.
Post by Ø
[Not easily categorized, eh? Convenient, isn't it?]
not particularily
Post by Ø
http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/marin-fraternities.htm
Though acknowledged as the largest and oldest fraternity in the world,
Freemasonry is not easily categorized. Like many of its imitators, it
is often described as a secret society because its meetings are closed
to the uninitiated and utilizes passwords and grips. Unlike so many of
its imitators, such as those described below, Freemasonry is not a
benefit society. Although it recognizes no class distinctions and
accepts all men of good morals who have a belief in a Supreme Being,
Freemasonry's membership has traditionally been drawn from among the
intellectual and social elite in society from the first recorded
acceptance of a speculative Masons - Robert Moray in 1641 and Elias
Ashmole in 1646. The ritual and ceremonies of Freemasonry encourages
the process of spiritual development in the initiate. Individual
freethinking was and is the hallmark of Freemasonry.
quoted from you posted link...except for the "oldest" reference which
is pure myth...note its purpose (in italics)
Post by Ø
Section: Specific, Non-Masonic Fraternal Groups in Marin
B'nai B'rith is NOT listed as NON-MASONIC.
B'nai B'rith IS listed under: Ethnic Fraternal Organizations
Now, if it's fraternal, AND *NOT* NON-MASONIC, what the hell is it?
Masonic imitator?
It's not on that list. B'nai B'rith is an INDEPENDENT ORDER, yet it's
Freemasonic. People will deny, and play all the Masonic word games, but
that's what it is.
nowhere in the link did I read that BB is Masonic
Post by Ø
If anything B'nai B'rith is very high-level Freemasonry. I have a source
that I have to check out, but the source says Albert Pike handed
Freemasonry over to B'nai B'rith in 1874 in a "secret treaty".
This info is still classified as tentative, yet plausible.
plausible? does that make it true....I would be interested in you source
Post by Ø
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
BTW just because someone is a Mason and belongs to or even starts
another group does not make that other group a Masonic group!
OK.
But a lot of these groups are more or less spinoffs that have a
Masonic/Zionist character to them.
so what?
It makes them part of the matrix. The interlocked, pervasive network
the
Post by Ø
idiot "President" Wilson talked about. The pervasive networked that
killed
Post by Ø
JFK, just after he spoke out against them and was taking actions to
stop
Post by Ø
them.
what matrix? the matrix of humankind?
The matrix is an espionage/control/deception network.
Sayanim of sorts.
BS!
Post by Ø
Post by Ø
I should add "criminal" to the idiot Wilson's words.
So, we're dealing some type of "fuzzy" logic?
We're dealing with blacks, whites and a multitude of grays?
So, if it's a "gray", then you don't accept it as "truth" (because
there is
Post by Ø
some doubt), BUT you accept this as the "true" Christianity?
Are you saying this is the best approximation we have to
Christianity, therefore you accept it as the "true" Christianity?
Even though you don't necessarily believe it?
I'm *not* trying to give you a hard time here.
I find this interesting.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
as I said before, when I discuss Christianity with Christians, I
only refer to the red-letter texts
I stand by this statement....it has nothing to do with my beliefs
So, you EVADE THE QUESTION YET AGAIN?
I have answered you on this several times...I do not believe in the Bible
except as a partial history of a people and their religion but, when I
disucss Christianity with Christians, I will only use the red-letter text

HOW MUCH CLEARER CAN I STATE MY POSITION?
Post by Ø
Post by Ø
I'll look into these.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
again, why quote something as "support" for an argument if you do
not even think is is valid?
I quote the *select* passages because I think they apply.
The *select* passages are indeed valid, IMO.
Not the whole "Bible".
Think of it as a line-item-veto.
Think of it a slicing the fat from the steak, only this particular
steak
Post by Ø
has a lot more fat than meat.
so you simply ignore the parts which do not support your position....again
very convenient! and unconvincing!!!
Post by Ø
convienient, much like some famous fundmentalist Christian preachers
They're probably Masonic.
Most certainly Judeo-Christian -- not Christian!
so you say....again and again you make such claims with no evidence...much
less proof!
Ø
2007-10-17 19:58:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
You asked for examples of symbols that could be used to further a
Zionist agenda, didn't you?
Menorah?
Stars of "David" all over the place?
What's on the flag of Israel?
Jewish symbols, not necessarily Zionist
I don't think Anti-Zionist Jews use the Star of "David".
At least these guys:
http://www.nkusa.org/

I haven't read the following book, but it seems like it might clear some
of this up.
http://www.amazon.com/Six-Pointed-Star-Its-Origin-Usage/dp/0968938302/ref=sr_11_1/104-7705719-5275160?ie=UTF8&qid=1192640652&sr=11-1
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
So... You "know" of "Christian" hypocrites because you read/watch
the "news"? I take it, then, that you are an informed individual.
Has reading/watching the news informed you of Jewish hypocrites,
especially regarding sexual matters?
no
NO????? Really??
Do you think it's because there are no Jewish hypocrites, especially
regarding sexual matters?
I expect an answer.
no....and I never said so!!!
You know of "Christian" hypocrites from reading/watching the news.
You don't know of "Jewish" hypocrites from reading/watching the news.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Has watching the History Channel informed you that "World Jewry"
waged
war
Post by Ø
on Germany?
no
NO??? Really??
"World Jewry" *DID* declare war on Germany just prior to WWII, didn't
it? I expect an answer.
not that I am aware of....
How many books, documentaries on this subject would you say you've
read/watched?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Did the History Channel tell you about Donmeh Jews and their role in
the
Post by Ø
Armenian Genocide?
<snip />
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
you mean the Ottoman Turks are blameless?
How do you even think of that from my statement?
I'll get back to your question, but let me first note that
YOU *EVADED* MY QUESTION.
Did the History Channel tell you about Donmeh Jews and their role in
the Armenian Genocide?
I expect an answer, dmreed.
no, not that I am aware of
How many books, documentaries on this subject would you say you've
read/watched?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
I have answered you on this several times...I do not believe in the
Bible except as a partial history of a people and their religion but,
when I disucss Christianity with Christians, I will only use the
red-letter text
HOW MUCH CLEARER CAN I STATE MY POSITION?
That was clear enough.
Thank you, Mr. Reed.

<snip />


Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-18 04:57:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
I don't think Anti-Zionist Jews use the Star of "David".
http://www.nkusa.org/
is there anything you linked to to support your opinion? I did not see
anything.
Post by Ø
I haven't read the following book, but it seems like it might clear some
of this up.
http://www.amazon.com/Six-Pointed-Star-Its-Origin-Usage/dp/0968938302/ref=sr_11_1/104-7705719-5275160?ie=UTF8&qid=1192640652&sr=11-1
I do not have this book...so no real comment except that some indicate an
exoteric and esoteric meaning of the six-pointed star...quick reference:
http://pigeonproject.wordpress.com/2007/08/14/the-meaning-of-the-star-of-david-2/

but in particular,
"THE MEANING OF THE STAR OF DAVID

The Star of David is a combination of the Two Worlds which relate to the
Heaven and Hell natures within Man as well as around Him

The Two Triangles are symbolic of the Two Trinities of Father , Son and Holy
Ghost with the point of the Triangle pointing up to the Skye drawing White
Light into ones Consciousness

The Second Trinity is symbolic of the Hellish Worlds of the Devil , Anti
christ and False Prophet with its point of the Triangle pointing to the
Earth and Hell drawing in Black Energy of the Physical Self"

it does go on to discuss some possible negative meanings as well

this link has another perspective:
http://www.clarion-call.org/yeshua/star/star.htm

there are many other references available on the internet
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
"World Jewry" *DID* declare war on Germany just prior to WWII, didn't
it? I expect an answer.
not that I am aware of....
How many books, documentaries on this subject would you say you've
read/watched?
maybe 20-50 on WWII but none said anything about World Jewry

and you?
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Did the History Channel tell you about Donmeh Jews and their role in
the Armenian Genocide?
I expect an answer, dmreed.
no, not that I am aware of
How many books, documentaries on this subject would you say you've
read/watched?
none that I recall and only a couple regarding the "Armenian Genocide"

and you?
Ø
2007-10-18 19:54:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
I don't think Anti-Zionist Jews use the Star of "David".
http://www.nkusa.org/
is there anything you linked to to support your opinion? I did not see
anything.
Post by Ø
I haven't read the following book, but it seems like it might clear
some of this up.
http://www.amazon.com/Six-Pointed-Star-Its-Origin-Usage/dp/0968938302/
ref=sr_11_1/104-7705719-5275160?ie=UTF8&qid=1192640652&sr=11-1
I do not have this book...so no real comment except that some indicate
an exoteric and esoteric meaning of the six-pointed star...quick
http://pigeonproject.wordpress.com/2007/08/14/the-meaning-of-the-star-o
f-david-2/
but in particular,
"THE MEANING OF THE STAR OF DAVID
The Star of David is a combination of the Two Worlds which relate to
the Heaven and Hell natures within Man as well as around Him
The Two Triangles are symbolic of the Two Trinities of Father , Son
and Holy Ghost with the point of the Triangle pointing up to the Skye
drawing White Light into ones Consciousness
The Second Trinity is symbolic of the Hellish Worlds of the Devil ,
Anti christ and False Prophet with its point of the Triangle pointing
to the Earth and Hell drawing in Black Energy of the Physical Self"
it does go on to discuss some possible negative meanings as well
http://www.clarion-call.org/yeshua/star/star.htm
there are many other references available on the internet
I think that all this symbolism is like some reverse-Zen way of looking at
things.
Seems like it can be taken to the point of a schizophrenia.
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
"World Jewry" *DID* declare war on Germany just prior to WWII,
didn't it? I expect an answer.
not that I am aware of....
How many books, documentaries on this subject would you say you've
read/watched?
maybe 20-50 on WWII but none said anything about World Jewry
and you?
0 before 9/ll and the push for these wars.
I used to believe the official version (including the holocaust) taught to
me in school and I felt ok with that.

I've read maybe about 7 (of the revisionist perspective), scanned thru
some sections of others.

I take it that those 20-50 items you list also don't deal with Masonry and
say, the bankers?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Did the History Channel tell you about Donmeh Jews and their role
in the Armenian Genocide?
I expect an answer, dmreed.
no, not that I am aware of
How many books, documentaries on this subject would you say you've
read/watched?
none that I recall and only a couple regarding the "Armenian Genocide"
Any mention of Masonry?
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
and you?
1 book, 2 documentaries outside of anything taught in school.
Again, after 9/11.

Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-18 21:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
0 before 9/ll and the push for these wars.
I used to believe the official version (including the holocaust) taught to
me in school and I felt ok with that.
I've read maybe about 7 (of the revisionist perspective), scanned thru
some sections of others.
I take it that those 20-50 items you list also don't deal with Masonry and
say, the bankers?
I have seen/read a fair amount regarding the Masonry...some fairly objective
and some not.
Post by Ø
1 book, 2 documentaries outside of anything taught in school.
Again, after 9/11.
hummmmmmmmm....nothing like extensive research!

Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-04 21:24:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
and speculative
I hope you're not saying that it's wrong just because you call it
"speculative". Is there anything there that you would call "wild"
speculation?
These are not my only sources by the way.
There's nothing wrong with speculation/conjecture, as long as you
know that's what you're doing and you test your conjectures.
Speculation/conjecture is used in science, mathematics.
Sanity check time!!
speculation is obviously import but speculation is not fact...many
speculations do not yield "truth".
What's your point? That's what my examples demonstrate.
Speculation/conjecture when done intelligently can lead to truth.
If done recklessly it'll probably throw you wide off the mark.
Do you have any specific examples of reckless speculative material in
the links I provided you?
look up the history of "philogiston" an early attempt to explain
combustion...a real scientific theory but simply later proved to be false.
I asked you to provide an example FROM THE LINKS I PROVIDED ABOVE (and you
conveniently deleted).
You said they were speculative. I ask for an example. That's all.
This isn't rocket science.
The links were about Masons in early American political history and what
role they may have played in the evolution of that history.
if I get some time I will recheck your provided links
Post by Ø
The phlogiston stuff is nice, but irrelevant.
Care to try again?
you stated "Speculation/conjecture is used in science, mathematics."
apparently to justify the importance of speculation so how can the false
scientific theory of phlogiston be irrelevant?
Ø
2007-10-05 19:27:44 UTC
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"Dennis M. Reed \"Califa\"" <***@dmreed.com> wrote:

<snip />
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The phlogiston stuff is nice, but irrelevant.
Care to try again?
you stated "Speculation/conjecture is used in science, mathematics."
apparently to justify the importance of speculation so how can the
false scientific theory of phlogiston be irrelevant?
That speculation could lead one astray was never in dispute.

Yes, scientific theories can be flat out wrong. They are modified or even
discarded when this is demonstrated to be the case.


I was just saying it was irrelevant to the issue of the "founding fathers"
being Masons.


Ø
Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
2007-10-05 20:55:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ø
<snip />
Post by Dennis M. Reed "Califa"
Post by Ø
The phlogiston stuff is nice, but irrelevant.
Care to try again?
you stated "Speculation/conjecture is used in science, mathematics."
apparently to justify the importance of speculation so how can the
false scientific theory of phlogiston be irrelevant?
That speculation could lead one astray was never in dispute.
Yes, scientific theories can be flat out wrong. They are modified or even
discarded when this is demonstrated to be the case.
I was just saying it was irrelevant to the issue of the "founding fathers"
being Masons.
perhaps your belief in some of the speculations you have presented are
false! and not all of the "founding fathers" were Masons!
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